Talk:Lionel Messi/Archive 9

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Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2015

In response to the last reply from Imperial HRH2, regarding Cristiano Ronaldo as often being mentioned as the greatest of all time, this is nonsense. The references used to back up this claim on Cristiano Ronaldo's wiki page are from a former coach of the same nationality, another coach of the same nationality, a club team mate and one journalist writing for a newspaper. The user 'ImmutableString' was correct when he mentioned that many of the claims 'only put the emphasis on current best player not all time'. To claim it is biased of me to object to this sentence is laughable as even a quick bit of research will reveal that amongst sports writers and footballers only Messi has seriously been compared to the likes of Maradona and Pele. To claim the same for Cristiano Ronaldo is untruthful and shows a bias on your part for not removing this part of the sentence. So in conclusion, as a sentence it is poorly constructed as it suggests Cristiano Ronaldo also won 4 Ballon d'ors, and it is also incorrect factually as mentioned above. Please change 'Often ranked as the best player in the world and rated by some in the sport as the greatest of all time,[3][4][5][6][7][8] alongside rival Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi is the first football player in history to win four FIFA/Ballons d'Or' to 'Often ranked as the best player in the world and rated by some in the sport as the greatest of all time,[3][4][5][6][7][8] Messi is the first football player in history to win four FIFA/Ballons d'Or' Murunpp (talk) 16:31, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  19:15, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

@Murunpp: Thank you for contributing to the discussion. Note that when using an {{edit semi-protected}} you are alerting other editors that you have an edit you would like to see made. See Wikipedia:Protection_policy#Semi-protection. This request is not necessary when simply discussing an edit or identifying an issue. That can be done here on the talk page any time. Please wait to use the edit request until you have reached a consensus on an edit, have reliable sources where appropriate, and most importantly are able to provide a specific description of the edit you would like to request. Edit requests that do not use the "X to Y, for reason" format are often rejected.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  19:26, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2015

I don't understand why there needs to be a mention of C. Ronaldo at all in this particular sentence. You can, for the sake of clarity and exhaustiveness, add that C. Ronaldo and Messi often compete for the spot of the best player.

Please change 'Often ranked as the best player in the world and rated by some in the sport as the greatest of all time,[3][4][5][6][7][8] alongside rival Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi is the first football player in history to win four FIFA/Ballons d'Or..' to 'Often ranked as the best player in the world and rated by some in the sport as the greatest of all time,[3][4][5][6][7][8] Messi is the first football player in history to win four FIFA/Ballons d'Or..' Reasons explained previously. Murunpp (talk) 19:24, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Done  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  19:30, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I will also be removing the line 'along with rival Lionel Messi' from Ronaldo's page to maintain uniformity. Imperial HRH2 (talk) 19:38, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Despite it being agreed for the Cristiano Ronaldo mention be removed, you (Imperial HRH2) have put it back. It has been made abundantly clear the reason why it is untruthful to include a reference to him in this sentence and it is an opinion backed up by others on here. However you seem to want to be the sole controller of this. It is a shame that although, according to your page, facts are something you want on Wikipedia, you are clearly ignoring facts and are not impartial at all. It definitely seems like you are a Cristiano Ronaldo fan. I would like to request for the sentence Often ranked as the best player in the world and rated by some in the sport as the greatest of all time,[3][4][5][6][7][8] alongside rival Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi is the first football player in history to win four FIFA/Ballons d'Or..' to be changed to 'Often ranked as the best player in the world and rated by some in the sport as the greatest of all time,[3][4][5][6][7][8] Messi is the first football player in history to win four FIFA/Ballons d'Or..' Murunpp (talk) 21:16, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Clear bias from user Murunpp toward Messi. The fact is the two players are constantly compared to one another on a weekly basis...one scores two goals, the subject of the next game is "will he outdo his rival"?...the two players are inextricably linked and have the highest profile individual rivalry in world sport. It was the excellent work of RealDealBillMcNeal that collected the material and put it together. The other fact is that Ronaldo has been on an upward curve over the past 2 seasons and has now entered the discussion of greatest ever as backed up by the multitude of sources. The debate of who is the best today centers on these two, and has done since 2008 where they have dominated the worlds best player award. Any discussion on Ronaldo will invariably involve Messi, and vice versa. To quote Ronaldo on this subject, "It's part of my life now".Carlos Rojas77 (talk) 21:15, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

English must obviously not be your first language @Murunpp:. If you go back and read the edit history clearly, it was @Carlos Rojas77: who reverted the edit back to original, and I would have to say I completely agree with him. Consensus had already been reached with us editors and you seem to want to alter it with your bias. But to make you feel better, we deal with stuff like this on a daily basis. Imperial HRH2 (talk) 21:23, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Had Murunpp brought this up maybe two years ago, then quite probably yes I would have said its a bit of a stretch to put Ronaldo in the category of greatest ever debate, and the vast majority of people in the sport would have put Messi on a different level to Ronakdo (as would I have), but there can be no doubt that since then Ronaldo has stepped up a level and been on ridiculous goalscoring form, and in doing so firmly put himself among the debate. Their rivalry is a weekly duel...constantly brought up by commentators and people in the game, so to dismiss all of them is a clear display of personal bias. Leave personal views at the door. The fact is he's locked in a high profile rivalry with Messi as the two best of their generation, and in the debate for greatest ever.Carlos Rojas77 (talk) 21:38, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Carlos Rojas77 you have made my point for me. The level Messi was playing at a couple of years ago was so high that he was being compared to the likes of Pele and Maradona (something which has never happened with Cristiano Ronaldo). Neither Messi nor Ronaldo have performed at a level similar to this since. When Ronaldo is being compared to Messi, it is in relation to Messi now, not as he was then. You mentioned a multitude of sources claiming Ronaldo as the best ever, however I am not aware of these (unless you are referring to comments from former managers and teammates). Ronaldo has over the past couple of seasons been seen by many as the best player in the world at that time, not of all time. Also, as I have mentioned repeatedly, the sentence does not read well as it makes it appear that Ronaldo also won 4 Ballon d'ors. I hope this makes things clear. Also, apologies to Imperial HRH2 for assuming you had replaced that part of the sentence.Murunpp (talk) 21:56, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I disagree with your personal bias so I couldn't have made any point for you. A multitude of sources put Ronaldo in the debate for greatest ever. That's a simple fact regardless of your own personal bias. As i said previously, leave personal views at the door. As regards "Messi is the first football player in history to win four FIFA/Ballons d'Or"....that's as clear a statement as I have ever seen. If your interpretation of English is not good thats not a subject for here.Carlos Rojas77 (talk) 22:22, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

The mysterious multitude of sources Murunpp (talk) 22:25, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Editors, Karim3adel (at exactly the same time as Murunpp...coincidence?) don't understand the clarity in the statement "Messi is the first football player in history to win four FIFA/Ballons d'Or"....so I have moved it to avoid any confusion with non English speaker(s).Carlos Rojas77 (talk) 22:39, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I was referring to an earlier version, which didn't read very well (part of the problem was caused by a comma). It is now fine, thanks for the changes. I guarantee that if another user also commented regarding this at the same time it was merely a coincidence. Also, Carlos Rojas77, sarcasm does not befit you, especially when your English is less than perfect. Finally, you and Imperial HRH2 repeatedly accused me of bias, I hope you do realize that you are both biased in favor of Ronaldo. Anyway, the page is far clearer now, so thanks for the changes. Murunpp (talk) 08:53, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

If you think we are biased, that is your opinion, but we are not the ones making multiple edit requests because the fact that people in the sport now consider Ronaldo in the same bracket as "greatest ever" doesn't sit well with us. Either way, the sentence has now been rephrased to make it clear. About comparisons, it is well known that Messi being compared to Pele and Maradona is due to the fact that Messi is not the first of his kind. His play was very similar to them (the way he dribbles, the position he plays, etc.) while commentators argue Ronaldo is the first of his kind (strong, athletic, winger) so your argument doesn't hold here. Finally, this is a Lionel Messi article so I don't know what problem you have with Cristiano Ronaldo. Imperial HRH2 (talk) 09:48, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Well I was mainly irritated because it was a clumsy looking and inaccurate sentence. It is an interesting point regarding the comparisons with Maradona and Pele, although I disagree that Pele and Maradona had similar playing styles. The comparison between Messi and Maradona is fairly obvious as their styles are similar and both are predominantly left footed, but I disagree with the comparison with Pele, so your opinion perhaps only applies in relation to Maradona. The problem I have with comparisons between Messi and Ronaldo stems from the fact that statistics are too often being used to define greatness, whereas they should only be part of the story. Cristiano Ronaldo is a phenomenal goal scorer and an incredible athlete, whereas I would argue Messi is a phenomenal footballer. We all, of course, have preferences with styles and players, so to an extent any debate will be somewhat subjective. Murunpp (talk) 10:20, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2015

Add more information about Messi's girlfriends. Confirmed, not confirmed, more info about the girls, etc.

Change:

Messi was at one stage romantically linked to Macarena Lemos, also from his hometown of Rosario. He is said to have been introduced to her by the girl's father when he returned to Rosario to recover from his injury a few days before the start of the 2006 World Cup.[308][309] He has in the past also been linked to the Argentine glamour model Luciana Salazar.[310][311]

To:

Messi was at one stage romantically linked to Macarena Lemos, also from his hometown of Rosario. He is said to have been introduced to her by the girl's father when he returned to Rosario to recover from his injury a few days before the start of the 2006 World Cup. Messi never confirmed their relationship but it was widely reported that his mother Maria had confronted Lemos in a shopping centre about the nature of the pair's relationship. [308][309]

After breaking up with Lemos, rumors in 2008 also linked Messi to the Argentine glamour model and actress Luciana Salazar. This relationship was never confirmed and no reliable details ever surfaced.[310][311]

Sources: www.messi.com, www.messi.com/girlfriends/

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 16:11, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Introduction

"FC Barcelona and the Argentina national team, which he captains." or "FC Barcelona and is the captain for the Argentina national team."?

The latter does not say that he plays for Argentina. SLBedit (talk) 14:33, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Feet size ?

A pair of Messi's football boots were for sale on French eBay. They were 43.5 EU (10.5 UK). Big feet for a 169cm person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.127.218 (talk) 22:23, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Not really encyclopaedic though, is it? Plus where's the proof they were actually Messi's boots. – PeeJay 23:03, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2015

Please change greatest players of all time alongside rival Cristiano Ronaldo to greatest players of all time only .

Link -

Reason - All the quotes on Cristiano Ronaldo was by his former manager, agent, current or past teammates and only put the emphasis on current best player not all time. You can see the links on the Cristiano Ronaldo #REDIRECT [[1]] page. Thanks ImmutableString (talk) 11:02, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  11:41, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

References

I agree with the proposal. Some time before there was some debate, but at this point there is a wide consensus that Messi is the best player of his generation. Now the discussion is whether he is the best player in history or not.--213.4.33.37 (talk) 17:45, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Number of Goals he has scored

In the table which shows the statistics of his entire career, it says that his career goal total is 408. However, in the Barcelona records section, it says that he is the club's all time leading goal scorer with 425 goals. There is clearly some error here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.161.16 (talk) 04:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2015

Please add the following to the "Wealth / Salary" section of this article. As of March 2015, Lionel Messi was cited as being the highest paid footballer in the world, earning almost £1m a week (an estimated £47.8million a year, with £26m in his basic salary before bonuses). Sources: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lionel-messi-earns-1m-a-week-make-5394591 http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/revealed-footballs-highest-paid-players-managers-5396181 Mikeyv (talk) 06:30, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Already done Lionel_Messi#Salary it talks about what you're citing, and that contract goes through 2018. Kharkiv07^Talk 02:56, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Assist record

In the "Records in Spain section", should the actual number of La Liga assists be removed? (i.e., include only "Most assists made in La Liga history", removing "107"). Unfortunately, sources which include a reliable compilation of Messi's assist statistics are difficult to find; the only thing that is certain according to reliable sources is that he broke Figo's assist record, with his 107th assist in La Liga. Since then, Messi has assisted 4 more goals in la Liga, bringing him to 111, yet, in the records section, his total is still listed as 107; however, I don't feel that it is appropriate for me to update this statistic on a match by match basis, as, to my knowledge, there are no reliable sources that compile Messi's total La Liga assists since he broke the record. There are reliable official La Liga sources (on http://www.fcbarcelona.es and http://www.ligabbva.com) that list assist statistics per season, therefore, possibly an accurate total could be compiled from all of these sources, although this might be a bit tedious. Does anyone else have any thoughts regarding this matter?

If you have a reliable source which claims that Messi holds the record for "Most assists made in La Liga history", then that is enough. Like you said, its too tedious (and unreliable as official sources might not exist) to update his assist count. Using multiple sources that show assists per season, to add his assists together and keep a count is unreliable and bad practice all together. I agree with you here. Imperial HRH2 (talk) 00:27, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello, thanks for your response. The record listed for most assists already has a reliable source listed, which was added when overtook Figo, so I don't think that's an issue at least. Since then he has provided more assists, so do you think, in that case, I should keep the record but remove the actual number of assists (107)? Or should I just leave it as it is? Thanks again! Messirulez (talk) 03:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. Yeah, just go ahead and remove the number of assists. I don't see why that is important if he already holds the record now. Imperial HRH2 (talk) 23:05, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, done now! All the best, Messirulez (talk) 15:57, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2015

messi apps for 2014-2015 is 54 not 53 i would like it changed 81.170.15.31 (talk) 21:16, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Done I have made the correction. QED237 (talk) 21:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

sorry for confusion !

I really thought first time you kept the info and left the tag asking for a reference for it. because as I said before I was going to delete it since there is no reference for it and when I read pedro comment i thought you meant it can be left since you can't find a reference for pedro . :)

thank you again .

and here is a source for scoring in 6 different competitions for both perdro and messi http://www.fcbarcelona.com/club/the-honours/detail/card/fc-barcelona-individual-records Adnan (talk) 23:41, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2015

86.21.189.121 (talk) 10:25, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done No request made. Please write in "please change X to Y"-form or what you want to be changed and provide source. Qed237 (talk) 10:33, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2015

Bugraseventysixty (talk) 12:05, 20 June 2015 (UTC) Lionel Messi Buğra'nın en sevdiği futbolcudur. Ona bulaşan geberir.

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Stickee (talk) 12:50, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

An error in the information given in the article

I would like to point out an error in the last paragraph of the article, coming under the section "2014 world cup". It is stated that there was a controversy about giving the golden ball to Lionel Messi. Yes, there was a controversy, but the reason that you have stated here is incorrect. You have stated that Messi hadn't scored any goals. Actually, he had scored 4 goals in the tournament. You yourself have stated it in the beginning of that particular section.

I hope you rectify the errors.

Thanks

Good Luck — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.212.176.63 (talk) 08:29, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

The information is correct. "Messi had no goals and just one assist (in the Round of 16 match) during the knockout round." SLBedit (talk) 03:13, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2015

Please add International Country Runner-up honors, almost all the other notable players have them.

• FIFA World Cup (1): Runner-up 2014
• Copa América (2): Runner-up 2007, 2015

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Torakka2 (talk • contribs)

Not done. Please read section #Runner-up honours above. Qed237 (talk) 16:47, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2015

Messi is a catholic person and not a israel person.He told it in the Guardian News Alwinder (talk) 04:39, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. The article does not mention "Israel" or "Jewish" anywhere. It also already says "In 2013, Messi, a devout Roman Catholic". Not sure what you want done. Cannolis (talk) 05:07, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2015

Messi's Honours for Argentina , His silver medal for FIFA World CUP 2014 and Copa America 2015 are not mentioned. 116.203.72.2 (talk) 16:57, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I also think they should be added. See the discussion above. SLBedit (talk) 20:21, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Runner-up honours

Is there any reason why runner-up honours are not listed? SLBedit (talk) 17:27, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Because coming second doesn't win you anything and Messi has enough gold medals to make for a substantial Honours section as it is. – PeeJay 17:30, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Coming second in certain competitions gives a player a medal. A runner-up in a 2014 World Cup is notable and should be listed. Or do you want to hide the fact that he lost finals? SLBedit (talk) 17:48, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Must you really make such insinuations about my motives? An 'Honours' section is supposed to list all the competitions/awards a player has actually won. By definition, coming second means he hasn't won anything. If he came first, second or any other place, that should be mentioned in the prose of the article. Sections like this are supposed to be a supplement to the text, not a replacement, so only the biggest achievements should be listed. – PeeJay 18:27, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Always Assume good faith , worldcup runner up is notable in my opinion but the problem you will find people start adding useless second runner-ups like Spanish supercup or copa del rey . Adnan (talk) 18:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

I asked a question. If they add other less notable honours remove them and keep the World Cup. SLBedit (talk) 19:21, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Now we have Shayne2000 adding needless runner-up honours. SLBedit (talk) 07:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

@PeeJay2K3: will you stop removing international honours? Yes, they are more relevant than club honours. SLBedit (talk) 14:55, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

So first you say the runner-up honours are needless, then you say that international ones are more relevant and should be kept, but you've not provided any rationale for that. Some club competitions award medals to teams who finish in second place, so that can't be the reason why international competitions deserve to have runners-up listed. The fact is, an honour is something you actually win, i.e. when you finish in first place; finishing in second in any competition, international or otherwise, is not an honour. – PeeJay 16:24, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

I never said that, I said that some are "excessive", which is an opinion. The "rationale" is that users/readers find it useful and they tried to add that information (we don't WP:OWN the article). Finishing second is an honour – except in domestic leagues – that's why players receive medals even when they lose finals. SLBedit (talk) 07:12, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

No one is talking about owning the article. This is about maintaining a standard across all football articles. If a player comes second in a competition, mention it in the prose, but don't add second places to the honours section when no competition has actually been won. – PeeJay 07:20, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I have always thought the standard was (and maybe is) to include runner-up honours. Where is written that we shouldn't add them? SLBedit (talk) 07:33, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Then why did you call them 'needless' before? Anyway, we had a whole discussion about it on WT:FOOTY like two weeks ago. – PeeJay 20:10, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I have searched for it and couldn't found anything about runners-up not being listed. SLBedit (talk) 20:28, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Still no concensus at WP:FOOTY. SLBedit (talk) 20:23, 10 July 2015 (UTC)