Talk:List of United States Navy SEALs

Redlinked names - Delta and SEALs

The contents of this page and List of Delta Force members are vulnerable to redlinking. This has been a problem for many years, even though both articles have editor comments about non-notable names. Many of these warriors really should have WP articles because they are WP:Notable. Wikipedia editing guidance WP:RED says "Add red links to articles to indicate that a page will be created soon or that an article should be created for the topic because the subject is notable and verifiable [emphasis added]." Okay, we also have the guidance in WP:LISTPEOPLE. When we enforce a blue-link notability requirement for a list of people we avoid the problem of cluttering up the list with narrative about notability and the supporting citations for the narrative. That material belongs in the individual articles, not in these lists. In other words, interested editors should WP:WTAF. (This comment is also posted on the Delta-list talkpage) – S. Rich (talk) 22:12, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

List

Here is the red-linked names that have been removed, should anyone wish to create an article about any of them:

• Matt Bracken – SEAL officer, served in Beirut. Author of "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" series and conservative political commentator who has published or been interviewed on InfoWars, Instapundit, and other right of center sites. BUD/S Class 105.
• Clell W. Breining – Former Force Master Chief of Naval Special Warfare.
• Keith Bryan. a.k.a. "Cotton" – From Fernandina Beach, Fl. Served in the United States Marine Corps from 1980-1984 (OCS). Transitioned to the Navy to pursue special operations career as a SEAL. Served on SEAL Team 2 and became a qualified sniper at DEVGRU as well as s Special Operations Combat Medic. BUD/S class 126. 1984-1991 (Desert Storm).Became Licensed Clinical Psychologist (Forensics) after retirement as a Reservist in 1995.
• Hal Collins - Served 10 years with the Navy, former Special Operator 2nd Class SEAL Team 1. 86 confirmed kills in Vietnam. Nickname "Okie".
• Roger Crossland – BUD/S class 58, SEAL Team 1, UDT-12; entitled to wear the Presidential Unit Commendation ribbon for service in Vietnam; started and commanded Naval Reserve SEAL Team 2; recruited to the SEALs by Richard Marcinko; a Naval War College graduate who has written internationally on the subject of maritime unconventional warfare including the U.S. Naval Institute Proceedings and the New York Times; author of Red Ice and The Jade Rooster,
• William "Bill" Dawson - Frogman Class 1. Author "Before They Were SEALs They Were Frogs" (C) 2015. Bill died Monday May 13, 2019. Bill was the last surviving member of Class 1.
• John G. Gay — Silver Star recipient, one of four members of DEVGRU who participated in the First Battle of Mogadishu alongside Howard E. Wasdin. In Mark Bowden's novel, Black Hawk Down, Gay is noted to have narrowly avoided a fatal gunshot wound when his Randall combat knife deflected an AK-47 round from shattering his femur.
• Ryan Job – SEAL Operator 2nd Class. SEAL Team 3. Died during reconstructive surgery after leaving the navy.
• Richard Kaiser— A Silver Star recipient. Former member of SEAL Team 2 and a DEVGRU team leader who participated in the First Battle of Mogadishu alongside Howard E. Wasdin. He is currently the Executive Director of the National Navy UDT-SEAL museum in Fort Pierce, Florida.
• Alexander L. Krongard – Former commanding officer, SEAL Team 7 and Naval Special Warfare Group ONE. Former member of DEVGRU from 1990 to 1993. Graduate of the Princeton University and the Navy Officer Candidate School.
• Matthew Paradise – enlisted in 1985, was assigned to SEAL Team Two after graduating BUD/S. Became an officer, F/A-18 pilot and ultimately captain of the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson.
• Jack Salts, a.k.a. "Doc" - UDT 22, SEAL Team 1, Corpsman, Navy and Marine Corps Medal and Bronze Star with Valor recipient, 2 tours in Vietnam then BUDS Instructor Coronado, California until retirement in 1978.
• Steven Studdard – Former Command Master Chief (CMDCM) of Naval Special Warfare Group TWO, former member of DEVGRU and former Force Master Chief of Naval Special Warfare. BUD/S class 137 in 1986.
• Perry F. Van Hooser – Former commanding officer, DEVGRU. Graduate of the Virginia Military Institute in 1971 and former United States Marine Corps officer. Lost his lower leg from an injury in a parachuting accident.
• Chad Williams – Member of NSW 2004-2010, trained with Scott Helvenston prior to enlisting, served on SEAL Teams One & Seven. Following retirement from the navy he authored SEAL of God and became a Christian motivational speaker and guest commentator on news channels.

There may be other removed names found in the page history. - wolf 04:42, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

References

Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods

I thought this was already pretty clear. These two guys already have sections on this page: American fatalities and injuries of the 2012 Benghazi attack. That obviously means they are notable enough and the links I placed take you directly to their part of that page. I also thought that was enough because I did not want to go through making an article for both of these guys (even though they should have one) because I don't have an account anymore and I don't want one. Im just a casual editor. I don't know if I can create an article without an account, but if somebody will let me know if I can then I will create articles for these guys. Or if somebody else wants to do it. It wouldn't take much. However if you put my edits back, when someone finally creates an article for them then those links should go to their articles. Right now those links take you to the article I linked above.2600:6C54:7E00:C2:F93C:DF83:1FA1:E59F (talk) 00:46, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

See the lead. It says that this is a list of notable people. That means that this list follows WP:CSC, bullet one. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:56, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

These two entries meet the criteria in WP:CSC bullet one. Again, check my link above.2600:6C54:7E00:C2:31E6:82B3:280D:C3BA (talk) 01:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

IP, you are not quite correct. Certainly they and their involvement in Benghazi is WP:NOTEWORTHY. That's why they are mentioned in 2012 Benghazi attack. (And they are notable enough to have their own WP stand-alone articles. E.g., once we get a WP editor to write the articles.) So why set-up a different Benghazi-related article which simply recaps info about the KIAs? I do not think such an article is justified. Consider Battle of Mogadishu (1993)#Known casualties and losses. That was one big, huge on-the-ground-and-air mess! But Wikipedia has done a good job in describing it. Wikipedia does not need a "American fatalities and injuries of the Battle of Mogadishu" article. What to do here? Merge the Benghazi casualty list article into the basic attack article. And setup 2 new articles for the CIA casualties. At that point our CIA-casualties can be listed in this SEAL article. – S. Rich (talk) 04:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Just noticed this thread. Glen Doherty and Tyrone S. Woods have been added to the list. - wolf 05:10, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Ok, just to clear, I had already added Doherty, before seeing this thread. His name was blue-linked among a list of red-linked names posted above. It was only because I noticed the middle initial was missing from Woods red-linked name, which then became blue after I included it. I then added him to the list as well, seeing the same reasoning applying as with Doherty. But for some reason, my addition of Woods was abruptly reverted by Jonesey95 and I was accused of being "disruptive". (wtf?!) I've seen Jonesey editing this project for awhile, and this is... surprising, I expected better. Amyway, I don't see why these names can't be included. This seems like a waste of time. - wolf 06:15, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

I was not in doubt adding these 2 entries which is why I did not initially bring it up here, which I now see is what I should have done. I hope everyone can understand my situation though. These 2 guys obviously meet notability requirements. Im glad we can all agree on that. The kind of middle ground area I found myself in is that these 2 guy's names did not get red linked. However they also do not have their own independent pages. I mean, I think there is more info about these 2 guys on WP than there is about Harry Beal. Anyway, as I stated on your talk page rich, wouldn't it make sense to add them now (since they are not red linked) and then when someone creates pages for these guys, the links should take them to the proper page?2600:6C54:7E00:C2:31E6:82B3:280D:C3BA (talk) 11:57, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Draft space is available for the creation of new articles, even by unregistered editors. If these two people are as notable as claimed, it should be straightforward to create two draft articles and get them moved to article space. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:44, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

According to this they are notable enough for their own pages jonesey: [1].

2600:6C54:7E00:C2:31E6:82B3:280D:C3BA (talk) 11:53, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

OK. Click on these and start writing if you want articles to exist: Draft:Glen A. Doherty and Draft:Tyrone S. Woods. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:14, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Never mind. I just read an invisible comment on the 2012 Benghazi attack fatalities page that said it was voted upon to merge those 2 individuals with that page.2600:6C54:7E00:C2:6535:5B59:5F62:A473 (talk) 20:08, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Article history excerpts for potential article creation

Here are the two entries for these people who thus far, ten years after their deaths, do not have WP articles.

• Glen A. Doherty – Highly decorated nine year Navy veteran. Later deployed 14 times with CIA. Killed in action in the 2012 Benghazi attack. Has a star on the CIA Memorial Wall and was portrayed in the film 13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi.
• Tyrone S. Woods – 21 years of Navy service. Bronze Star with Combat "V" for valor in Iraq. Retired as a Senior Chief Petty Officer in 2010. Later joined CIA and was killed in action in the 2012 Benghazi attack.

If articles are created for them, they can be re-added to the list. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:42, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Please do create the articles. Please do. – S. Rich (talk) 14:11, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

References

Matt Bissonnette

If anyone wants to create a page for this guy: Matt Bissonnette (author) – Author of No Easy Day. Bissonnette writes that he participated in Operation Neptune Spear and was present in the third floor room of the compound when the terrorist leader was killed.2600:6C54:7E00:C2:31E6:82B3:280D:C3BA (talk) 14:52, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Matt Bissonnette (author) is ready and waiting for you. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:46, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. 2600:6C54:7E00:C2:31E6:82B3:280D:C3BA (talk) 15:54, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

•  Done article created. - wolf 06:19, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

List of Seal Team Admiral rank

Wikipedia has a list that displays previous seals attaining the rank of FLAG. Cathal "Irish" Flynn is not included. Is this due to the fact that he transitioned from EOD/UDT? Very Respectfully, Marty Herbst Capt. USN (Ret) ONI 173.66.139.247 (talk) 23:07, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Not sure what list you're referring to, but it's not this. If you could provide a link to the page, or even just the page title, that would help. Meanwhile this list only has SEALs that are confirmed as such by a reliable source. UDTs are included as they're condidered SEALs. If you could provide one for Flynn, we could go from there and see about getting him included on this list. - wolf 17:07, 8 January 2024 (UTC)