Talk:List of mnemonics for the cranial nerves
|This page was nominated for deletion on 10 February 2014 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.|
- 1 Encyclopediac?
- 2 Certainly not necessary and puts Wikipedia in a different category
- 3 Vulgar References Should Stay
- 4 Wikipedia vulgarities and nastiness and being really, really bad
- 5 The vulgar ones are useful and should stay - and yet...
- 6 Discussion page cleanup
- 7 Speculation on reduction of lewd/vulgar comments with increasing female matriculation
- 8 New Foramina mnemonic correct?
- 9 Including a visual mnemonic -- how?
- 10 On Occasion, Oliver Tries To Anally Fuck Various Guys. Vaginas Are History!
- 11 oh, oh, oh, to touch and feel virgin girls' vagina and hymen
- 12 Mnemonic for function
- 13 Not encyclopedic
You gotta be kidding me. It's not like we're going up to random people and saying these phrases. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. This page was created so that people have easier ways to remember all 12 cranial nerves. I'd like to see you try to memorize all 12 without a mnemonic. A significant amount of the general public benefits from this. Doctors(general, neurologic, sports medicine), nurses, athletic trainers, chiro's, physical therapists, veterinarians, etc. etc. That number is easily is in the 1 to 2 Million range. That is number one. Number two, we are more likely to remember things if they are tied to emotion of some sort, and that is basic neurologic fact. We are more likely to remember things if they are funny, or bad, regardless. So yes It can belong on wikipedia. If more people quit being so sensitive, this world would be a better place.
- Everything belongs in Wikipedia. Selective edit
If this article is abolished, please make three changes to the "Cranial Nerve" page so that its mnemonics section is more useful.
1) Add the "Mnemonics for Foramina" section as currently stands
2) Add the Box containing the list of cranial nerves. It's a very quick and easy reference to the nerves, much better than the list on the "Cranial Nerves" page.
3) Present the mnemonics information in list format as it was on this page. Currently the "Cranial Nerve" page presents a fairly unorganized paragraph on available mnemonics, and is much less helpful in this regard.
I found this mnemonics page extremely useful when studying this information, significantly moreso than the "Cranial Nerve" page, as all mnemonics were presented in simple list format and so it was easy to select one. For example, I settled on "OLd OPie OCCasionally..." as it seemed most useful to me.
Wikipedia is about collectively referencing and sharing information, and it is well within the philosophy of Wikipedia to retain this information. Furthermore, it is the first link from search engines using the phrase "cranial nerve mnemonics" and a few other variants, and in this regard contained very useful information to answer this question. I don't believe the vulgar ones are necessary or in the spirit of the site, and due to their potential offensiveness, may still inappropriate despite the fact that most people searching for this will be adults.
In summary, please keep the bulk of the information as it was presented on this page, be it still on this separate page or merged into the "Cranial Nerve" page. The format of this page was significantly better, and the foramina mnemonics section needs to be included if merged. I found this page extremely useful, and I'm sure others will as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by QSEagle (talk • contribs) 07:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Certainly not necessary and puts Wikipedia in a different category
I opened this page in front of a group of nursing students. I had no idea about the latter entries, (which are now removed). Until I heard my students giggling and gasping. I was quite embarrassed. I will definitely think twice before citing Wikipedia again. Gadgetlady58 (talk) 14:28, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
- If the word vagina makes your nursing students giggle, i would suggest offering them another major, or perhaps a lower grade. Also as an educator you open yourself up to risk anytime you open a webpage in class. It falls to your responsibility to safeguard appropriateness, not the information's responsibility. Austin 220.127.116.11 (talk) 03:53, 16 March 2010 (UTC) Also, vagina. *giggles*
The other question is: Why would you cite Wikipedia in a nursing major? Don't you know that you're supposed to use peer reviewed sources? Lol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:8201:D620:997A:928:8A1:5C23 (talk) 19:39, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
Vulgar References Should Stay
Our Physician Assistant class used and found many of the more vulgar mneumonics on this page, and it is absolute ridiculousness that these keep being removed. This is not christiansingles.com, and your squeemishness about some dirty words has no place in editing decisions. These "offensive" nmeumonics are more notable than most of the non-offensive ones to boot.--Gatitbot (talk) 00:30, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Some people are deleting the vulgar mnemonics. Let's be honest. Anyone studying the cranial nerves is probably an adult. Additionally, those are the ones that people find easiest to remember. I know at my med school, the trend was to try to come up with the most obscene mnemonic possible for any given list, and the professors had their own to contribute. I think it's fairly reasonable to expect students to inject a little humor into an otherwise dull list. Or not. Whatever. Cheers. NasserInASaucer (talk) 23:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes. I totally agree. The more outrageous and irreverent, the easier these are to remember. It's not reasonable to assume that mnemonics reflect one's opinion on social matters. Their disagreeable nature is what makes them easier to remember! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MondaleFerraro (talk • contribs) 03:56, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia vulgarities and nastiness and being really, really bad
I was shocked and appalled when I first visualized this base and vulgar reference. Imagine my horror!!! The use of the v**gina word!!!
— But vagina is just a body part. I understand it's vulgar in some cultures, but it's widely used even in newspapers. We were taught this mnemonic in medical school as well, and I do find it easier to remember too. --Senaiboy (talk) 17:53, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
The word vagina is not the problem. Vagina is not a vulgar term at all. Rather, look at the mnemonic for foramina-- that's crude and offensive. It's demeaning to women. Would racist statements be acceptable on wikipedia? I think not. Sexist statements are also not permissible.
- If you are studying the Cranial Nerves, you are in the very least, studying in a highschool Biology II class. To which vulgarities cease to matter, because vagina, is a body part, they dont write in textbooks the female's special place, they write: the female's vagina.
- Choosing what should and should not be posted is not the place of Wikipedia. The moment we selectively edit the information we provide, we no longer exist as a source. We become an opinion. By the defining rules, Wikipedia casts down the writing and/or editing of/for opinions.
- To expand on this, lewd and inappropriate mnemonics are the most memorable, and therefore the most useful. There is lots of evidence for this, although I haven't taken the time to find an ideal citation. (http://www.expressnightout.com/content/2011/03/total-recall-joshua-foer-moonwalking-with-einstein.php)
So vulgarities, sexist/ racist comments are okay as long as they're "useful"? That's foolish, Austin. Just because something might be found helpful by somebody does not mean it's acceptable to most people. Nobody needs mnemonics that badly, to sacrifice respect.
It's funny that you have "respect" for rules, but you care not of content that's completely disrespectful.
- Would you mind describing exactly which mnemonics are sexist/racist? "some say marry money but my brother says big boobs are better" probably demeans the institute of marriage by implying that financial or sexual gains are the most important reasons to marry, but unless you feel that the only worth a woman has is the value she contributes to a marriage, I have a hard time regarding this as a denigration of women generally. "Oh oh oh to touch and feel virgin girls' hymen and vaginas" likewise demonstrates a strange preference for virgins, but hardly denigrates women. Many men and women alike find touching a woman's vagina to be pleasurable; how is expressing pleasure regarding sexual actions somehow sexist? Lewd is not the same as sexist.
- Relax. We are not verbally using these statements toward another individual. Hence, we are not doing any damage to any individual, regardless of sex, race, gender, skin color, etc., etc, etc., etc. In layman's terms, so you can understand, It is not bullying, ergo, it is not in the wrong necessarily. Neuroscience states that, as a fact, memories are more likely to be remembered, when tied with emotion of some sort. If the mnemonic is funny or disturbing, our responses as laughter, amusement( and some people do have weird ideas of fantastical ideation) significantly increases the chance that we will remember the mnemonic device. Don't believe me? Then do your research, think about it, and use that wonderful brain of yours to its full capacity. Neuroscience, indeed, is a wonderful, yet mysterious, intriguing field of science. that still has vast frontiers that still need to be explored because the ideas and theories that were originally thought of only turned out to be untrue. To summarize -- to liken it to thinking we were the only planets in the solar system, only to realize later on that we were part of a system that exists along with other systems and the universe is a lot bigger than we thought....... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:8201:D620:988D:2D9E:65CD:5838 (talk) 22:37, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
The vulgar ones are useful and should stay - and yet...
I've just found them very useful in memorizing the cranial nerves - they stick in the mind, after all - so they certainly qualify as important informational content. However, educators who cannot repeat these things in front of class are going to find this page less useful. (I personally found it because two different teachers said "Here's a mostly useless mnemonic (unmemorable 'clean' mnemonic given), now go find the more dirty and memorable ones on the internet!")
Discussion page cleanup
Every section on this page seems to deal with the same thing, and might be better presented under one heading to facilitate discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 00:13, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Speculation on reduction of lewd/vulgar comments with increasing female matriculation
I removed a section from this article that read something like "One can imagine that use of these lewd mnemonics will decrease as female matriculation increases." A citation was given for increasing female matriculation, but obviously the correlation between this and reduction of lewd mnemonics is speculative, especially given that the sentence begins "one can imagine." As a male veterinary student outnumbered 3-to-1, I'd just like to point out that I learned the "oh, oh, oh, to touch and feel virgin girls' vagina and hymen" mnemonic from a female student, who had found it while studying with a group of 4 female students who all thought it was funny and easy to remember. If increasing female enrollment is to be relevant to this page, some citation for females being more likely offended or finding these mnemonics less useful compared to males would be necessary.
New Foramina mnemonic correct?
In the process of moving and wikifying the following mnemonic, I noticed it seems incomplete (in that repeating letters are not repeated in the mnemonic, e.g. S and S). I think it should be deleted or explained: "Cram Only Superior Rotundum, Ovale Is Just Hypothesis (Cribriform, Superior orbital, Rotundum, Ovale, Internal acoustic meatus, Jugular, Hypoglossal)"
On the subject of DELETION, which I know has been settled, my vote is a clear KEEP. I've been to two massage therapy schools, both predominately female, and this page has been popular -- and not causing of offense that I'm aware of -- at both schools. And seriously, nurses offended by the word 'vagina'? It's latin for sheath, when did it become slang or vulgar?Jonah Winters (talk) 02:36, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
Including a visual mnemonic -- how?
Someone posted a very helpful image mnemonic, which was deleted for being "unencyclopedic." Can it be included as a footnote, maybe? I copied it to my private server where it could be linked to, http://wintersbodyworks.com/images/cranial_nerves.jpg Jonah Winters (talk) 16:10, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
On Occasion, Oliver Tries To Anally Fuck Various Guys. Vaginas Are History!
Whoever came up with this mnemonic deserves a Nobel Prize in mnemonics. I can't believe it's been deleted. If a page listing mnemonics isn't going to keep the memorable ones (and, like it or not, the dirty and funny ones work best) then there's no reason for this page to be here at all.
oh, oh, oh, to touch and feel virgin girls' vagina and hymen
hat happened to the "Ooh, Ooh, Ooh, to touch and feel a virgin girl's vagina and hymen" mneumonic and a few others along those lines? Thats the one I was taught, and I could have sworn I saw it on this page last week. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 16:59, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
THis is the only one I've ever come across, I imagine its he most common, vulgar/demeaning or not it should go in.
Mnemonic for function
Wikipedia is not aimed at university students, but a general audience. I don't think this page is useful to a general audience. A great many of the mnemonics appear unsourced. It should also be noted that facts like mnemonics in articles about diseases are generally not discussed. Lesion (talk) 08:45, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Not convinced this is a real book: "Michael Carry, Ph.D, University of Colorado, Cell and Developmental Biology". No trace of it on google books. Might just be some learning material from a university some student has put here. Lesion (talk) 19:08, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
|“||A mnemonic for the names of the five branches of the Facial nerve is To Zanzibar By Motor Car, where the five branches are the Temporal, Zygomatic, Buccal, Mandibular and Cervical branches. OR: Tell Ziggy Bob Marley Called. OR: Tempermental Zebras Brutalize My Cervix or Ten Zebras Buggered My Cat. OR Two Zebras Bit My Cousin. OR Two Zombies Bit Miley Cyrus.||”|
- Michael Carry, Ph.D, University of Colorado, Cell and Developmental Biology