Talk:Missing man table

Military history: Memorials / North America / United States / Cold War

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Picure on German article

There are 2 pictures of a table on the German artikle — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flk-Brdrf (talk • contribs) 19:38, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bible

Fact is, sources indicate a Bible has been present at many tables. While some object, those objections can (and have been) sourced. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:10, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

--

Another fact is, the US was not "founded as one nation under God." and that phrase was not added to the US Pledge of Allegiance until the 1950's, around the same time "In god we trust" was added to money.

Another fact is, not all soldiers (including many fallen, missing, or imprisoned) are/were Christian; many follow other faiths, some none at all. Veterans memorials that incorporate a blatant/obvious Christian symbol are disrespectful and insulting to all such soldiers. Memorial day and its ceremonies are (supposed to be) about honoring ALL lost soldiers, NOT about praising a deity.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/bibles-dont-belong-on-pow-remembrance-tables

Ohmega99 (talk) 14:57, 28 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Ohmega99: Neither your opinion nor someone's op-ed is relevant. Wikipedia relies upon independent reliable sources to describe what is. We are not in the business of using our beliefs to proscribe what we prefer. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:54, 28 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

While it may be an opinion as to whether a bible is appropriate on an MMT or not, facts cited in support of that opinion are still facts. Also, it can still be a "fact" that certain persons hold that opinion.

It is a fact that some MMT's have included bibles.

It is a fact that some do not.

While some sources list a bible as among the items, it was not originally included, nor is it included in the list of items prescribed by the American Legion

https://www.legion.org/documents/legion/pdf/chaplains_manual.pdf (p11)

It is a fact that there are US soldiers (both living and deceased) that are(were) not Christians.

It is a fact that some persons, including some of those non-Christian soldiers, find the prominent inclusion of Christian symbols in veterans memorials to be offensive.

It is also a fact that when displays of MMT's on or by military or government facilities included a bible, it has been successfully challenged, with the result that it was removed.

https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2016/04/missing-man-tables/

And it is of course a fact that this is a controversial issue.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/military/sd-me-missing-man-20180426-story.html

https://www.stripes.com/news/navy-investigates-after-bible-was-included-in-okinawa-pow-mia-display-1.521094

Ohmega99 (talk) 00:40, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Saying "because of pressure from MRFF" is not NPOV. The reason many groups (including the one example cited) object is due to the principle of separation of church and state enshrined in the Constitution and the need to not have the appearance of a command endorsing one particular religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.61.27 (talk) 00:09, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Claiming that a Bible is or should be part of this display, or that it represents the "faith" of all soldiers is not NPOV either. It IS a fact that the Bible has often been challenged legally when included in government or military displays of the MMT, with the result is that the Bible was determined improper in such a display. Ohmega99 (talk) 05:11, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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