Talk:Operation Tamarisk

Virtually verbatim transcript of Stephen Fry's account of Operation Tamarisk in Series 5, Episode 7 of QI. Not sure of legalities here!

Confusing

How can you "starve" the Soviets of toilet paper? I'm sure that they had trees and I presume they had the means to manufacture toilet paper. Farrtj (talk) 22:49, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Just the supply of the toilet paper to the military was insufficient, that is it.Olegwiki (talk) 14:33, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I find it rather baffling to imagine that they got all this stuff over the border, but maybe they processed it in the East. There were also Soviet military missions in the other occupation, western, zones and there was definitely activity.

German wikipedia has this "Die westlichen Missionen durchsuchten regelmäßig Müllkippen in der Nähe sowjetischer Militärstandorte. Bei diesen Operationen, von den Briten „Tamarisk“, später „Tomahawk“ genannt, von den Amerikanern "Sand Dune",[11] wurden unter anderem zahlreiche Geheimunterlagen gefunden, die von den Truppen teilweise als Ersatz für unzureichend vorhandenes Toilettenpapier verwendet worden waren. Krankenhausabfälle lieferten zudem Erkenntnisse über die Gesundheitssituation in der GSSD und Verwundungen – einschließlich durch chemische Waffen – sowjetischer Soldaten in Afghanistan, die zur Behandlung in die DDR verlegt worden waren.[12]"

with the relevant bit being that the operation was also called Tomahawk and Sand Dune. Stephen Fry, whom I saw today with this, mightn't mind about being quoted, but his remark that it ended communism is not factual. East Germany was already bankrupt in 1982, teetered along until 1989.

There are many credible records about many other causes. 121.209.56.25 (talk) 11:32, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

So I got the book (The Hidden Hand) that’s referenced as saying that Operation Tamarisk involved depriving the Soviets of toilet paper. That’s definitely not what the book says. It merely says that toilet paper was not issued to Soviet troops. I will be editing the article to reflect this.WiJaMa (talk) 23:53, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Possible further sources

The book The Hidden Hand: Britain, America, and Cold War Secret Intelligence has the following source listed in its endnotes for Operation Tamarisk on page 676:

TSS memoir (G-2 Germany), 118-119 Schance papers, MHI. Also Brixmis presentations at RAF ‘Cold War Intelligence Gathering, RAF Hendon, 18 Apr. 2000. Private information. Brixmis is chronicled in Gerraghty [sic], Beyond the Front Line.

I have no idea what the first part of the source means, but if anyone wants a stab at it or has an idea what it might look like in the bibliography of the book (which might have a more complete explanation of the source) be sure to share. Tony Geraghty’s book, of course, we know about already and I’m going to see if I can get it on interlibrary loan. WiJaMa (talk) 00:17, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Notes from a few sources that mention Operation Tamarisk

I probably wouldn't do this for almost any other topic, but considering that there only seem to be a few easy-to-find secondary sources on Operation Tamarisk, I decided to post the notes I've taken from them so that myself or someone else can add this information to the article later. Here they are:

From The Hidden Hand: Britain, America and Cold War Secret Intelligence by Richard J Aldrich

Page 414: British, French, and American liaison teams were barred from areas where Soviet military exercises were taking place. However, once the exercises were over, they scoured these areas for anything of use. Soviet troops were not issued toilet paper in the field, so they would use any kind of paper on hand, including letters from home and classified documents. These would then be spread by the wind. By 1950, this method of intelligence collection had provided information on ciphers, morale, and relations between the Army, Party and Ministry of State Security. “By the late 1950s BRIXMIS regarded all military rubbish bins as valuable targets.”

Page 415: Searching military exercise areas and firing ranges produced the sources serial numbers for Moscow’s latest equipment. Searching rubbish bins became one of BRIXMIS’s most productive activities. By 1989, it was designated Operation Tamarisk, which continued until BRIXMIS was disbanded. Note that I say “by 1989” because the source is not clear on when this name was given, but gives 1989 as the year BRIXMIS ended, so it must have been by then.

From BRIXMIS: The Untold Exploits of Britain’s Most Daring Cold War Spy Mission by Tony Geraghty

Page 208: With the advent of the Soviet-Afghan War, BRIXMIS was now tasked with going through the garbage bins of military hospitals. They also went through military graveyards, recording the names, serial numbers, and dates of death for Soviet soldiers who died in hospital. By this time these sorts of activities were already referred to as Operation Tamarisk and ‘to tamarisk’ had become a verb to describe doing them. Samples of fresh dressings from military hospitals were sent for analysis to England or the US Mission headquarters in Berlin. They would reveal traces of metal from bullets or missiles.

Page 209: Because of this, they were able to link the material to battle wounds. At a garbage dump near a Soviet army barracks at Neustrelitz Sergeant-Major Ken Connor found a manual in Russian containing technical drawings.

Page 210: It turned out to contain top-secret information on the armor of the T-64, and the tank’s strengths and weaknesses. It also described the proposed T-80 and other aspects of Soviet armored warfare, including a plow attached to tanks to clear anti-tank mines. Because of the information in the manual, NATO decided to increase their heavy and medium anti-tank missiles by 60% by 1982. In 1981, a training area near Cottbus revealed documents containing the training program of a Soviet brigade and an Order of Battle booklet which “revealed some units as ‘shell’ formations, to be manned from the reserves only when war seemed imminent.”

Page 211: Sometimes agents were ordered to return rubbish to where they had found it.

From John N.L. Morrison (2014) Intelligence in the Cold War, Cold War History, 14:4, 575-591, DOI: 10.1080/14682745.2014.950248

Page 587: Logbooks found through Operation Tamarisk provided information on the lifetimes of Soviet aircraft engines.

Page 589: Documents retrieved through Operation Tamarisk confirmed to American intelligence that the T-80 would be deployed to Soviet forces in East Germany.

WiJaMa (talk) 02:26, 23 June 2019 (UTC)