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Relevance of photo[edit]

As before: Images are difficult to obtain. They add considerably to the content. This image is relevant as it shows:

  1. Two people who took part in the race
  2. A stunning picture of part of the race
  3. The logo of the race (the title for the article)
  4. The logo of a charity -- competitors worldwide run for charity and should be encouraged.

I think the picture should be there. Please be so good as not to remove it again. Duncanogi (talk) 15:16, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:IUP#User-created_images paragraph 3 scooby dooby dooby Simon-in-sagamihara (talk) 13:50, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

RfC: Is the Photo in this article relevant[edit]

Is the photograph in this article relevant to the subject? I refer to the following three points: 1. WP:IUP states that pictures mainly of the uploader's family are self-promotion and should be deleted. 2. The picture is of a female family member of the uploader. 3. The picture shows nothing about the subject of the article except for a logo on the girls' clothing. Simon-in-sagamihara (talk) 13:13, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Page title. Someone changed the title from the generic "Endurance foot race" to "RacingThe Planet". I notice that there are other "Endurance race" categories such as for motor cars and it may be better to have the title as "Endurance foot race". I do not really mind which! Duncanogi (talk) 17:00, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment Is an alternative picture available? Martin Hogbin (talk) 15:14, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Keep image As no one has proposed a better alternative I have restored the image. There is no consensus to remove it. Martin Hogbin (talk) 13:05, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Photo of two women[edit]

This photo (containing someone who I presume is the daughter of the uploader) adds nothing to the article and is obviously a posed snapshot rather than something which explains the topic. I have removed it once, but it has been re-uploaded. What do other editors think? Simon-in-sagamihara (talk) 03:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

The Image use policy (WP:IUP#User-created images) states Images with you, friends or family prominently featured in a way that distracts from the image topic are not recommended for the main namespace; User pages are OK. These images are considered self-promotion and the Wikipedia community has repeatedly reached consensus to delete such images. Based on this policy I am re-removing the image and suggesting that Duncanogi discuss his reasoning here before adding it again. Simon-in-sagamihara (talk) 03:50, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Images are difficult to obtain. They add considerably to the content. This image is relevant as it shows:

  1. Two people who took part in the race
  2. A stunning picture of part of the race
  3. The logo of the race (the title for the article)
  4. The logo of a charity -- competitors worldwide run for charity and should be encouraged.

I think the picture should be there. Please be so good as not to remove it again. -- (talk) 13:00, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Dear Duncan, your patronising tone is unnecessary. This is not your article, and it is obvious that you are you regardless of whether you are logged in as User:Duncanogi or logged out and appearing as an IP address. Please show how this picture adds considerably to the content. Does it show the race being run? Does it show part of the course? Does it show the winner of the race crossing the finish line? No, it doesn't. It shows your daughter and her friend standing in front of a gorge that could be anywhere. "Stunning" is in the eye of the beholder. I think the image in was stunning, but it was deleted. I'm not going to revert your edit again, since that would break WP:3RR (and would be a dickish thing to do). Instead I'm calling for other editors to make their opinions known. Simon-in-sagamihara (talk) 13:08, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

About to undertake a major edit of RacingThePlanet[edit]

I am new to contributing to Wikipedia, and understand there are certain conventions and guidelines that you ask editors to follow. I shall be undertaking a large rewrite of this page, adding much more information about the company that is RacingThePlanet, and the Events that are also titled RacingThePlanet. I shall then move onto the separate 4 Deserts page.

I have third party references to add as well as photographs, and whilst I am doing this on behalf of the company I understand that the content must be neutral. I'll be very glad of other edits, advice and pointers etc as I go about doing this, and apologize now for any editorial boo-boos I make, and any ugly formatting that occurs whilst I work out how this thing works - I just ask you to bear with me! Thanks Sam (Halojones88)--Halojones88 (talk) 11:15, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Dear Sam: Some increased neutrality would be good. Take Australia 2010. There's a world of difference between your "and a number of very experienced endurance athletes struggled with the conditions" and the reality of hospital admissions for dehydration, where the hospital had not been informed that a high risk ultramarathon was taking place. Similarly, I had to add the section and paragraph for the tragic events of Australia 2011; which you did not cover at all, despite that event being highly noteworthy due to the fire, the major injuries, the abandonment of the race, and the resulting police and parliamentary investigations. Gdt (talk) 02:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello everyone, I'm new here. Opening this section after I've tried to add my own content or restored other users' content related to:

I believe these are serious incidents and that prospective competitors and others should be informed. Would anyone else like to join the discussion--in particular whoever keeps anonymously deleting these edits without explanation? BuddyTK (talk) 07:30, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

BuddyTK - I am not the person who has deleted your comments but my attention has been drawn to the misinformation that is now sitting in this wikipedia entry about RTP. The information that you have added below in the section "2010-2011" is untrue. RacingThePlanet is fully cooperating with the inquiry, and has given numerous written submissions and the founder Mary Gadams has appeared in person. This is a matter of record across many newspaper articles. Your submissions appear to have some malicious intent and contain factual inaccuracies including that you have placed content about the Kimberley Ultramarathon underneath RacingThePlanet: Australia 2010; a completely different race.

There have been a large number of written submissions to the inquiry and you have chosen one sentence from just one of those submissions, and the inquiry has not yet reached any conclusions.

The comment from Nick Kruse's brother about the Gobi March where Nick tragically died is also heresay. That man was not at the event and there have been hundreds of other competitors who have completed the Gobi March and have not said that any of those events have been ill-prepared or the organisers reckless. RacingThePlanet enables competitors to keep blogs during the events that they can update during the race - it is a great resource to actually find out from the horses' mouths what competitors think of the events. There are hundreds of articles in the press detailing competitors participation in all of RacingThePlanet's events which have never referred to them as being badly organised or the management reckless.

The two points you raise in this section are factually correct. Wikipedia is for facts, and these are facts. Your content submissions seem to be skewed to a personal agenda which has no place on Wikipedia.

1) 2011 Kimberley Ultramarathon where two competitors were seriously injured by bushfire

2) 2010 Gobi March where one competitor died of heat stroke — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halojones88 (talkcontribs) 16:39, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Halojones88: Thanks for your thoughtfully considered reply. It was very frustrating before to see my edits repeatedly deleted anonymously with no reply.

About the first point about the Kimberley inquiry, you are correct that founder Mary Gadams has now appeared in person. It seems the edit I reverted had been written before she had done so. I also see the "RacingThePlanet: Australia 2010" information is under the wrong race. I will edit these points after the page is unlocked.

About the 2010 Gobi Race, there are many accounts by participants in the press and in blogs of RacingThePlanet being ill-prepared. There are similar accounts regarding the 2011 Kimberley Race. I will provide more references once the page is unlocked.

These events are dangerous. One person has died and two people are permanently disabled. You have called my intent malicious and personal, but I think people need to be informed of the risks. I do appreciate your help getting the facts correct.

BuddyTK (talk) 01:24, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Buddy: There are absolutely without doubt risks involved in taking part in the events. There is risk in any outdoor activity including road marathons where there are tragically a number of deaths every year due to either heart failure and complications with heat stroke or hyponatremia/hypernatremia etc.

The risks outlined above are complicated by the fact that the races of RacingThePlanet and others like the Marathon des Sables (take a look at their wiki-page too) take place in the most hostile environments in the world, in remote areas that are often a long way from "civilisation."

As I say, it is fact that the tragic events that you describe occurred and as facts they have a legitimate place on the wikipedia page, but wiki is not a place for opinion on who is responsible/not responsible.

There are a couple of thousand people who have taken part in more than one RacingThePlanet event. I intend to find out the figures but I believe that is around 50% of all competitors who have decided that they enjoy and are confident enough in the organisation of the races to take part again, 85 have taken part in all 4 Deserts races including one of the male competitors who was badly burned in the Kimberley Ultramarathon.

It is a fact that there is an inquiry into the Kimberley Ultramarathon at the moment but there is not yet a conclusion. The inquiry has certain underlying elements of being politically motivated and certainly in the submission of John Storey the local resident who helped pick out a course for the race and is a highly experienced bush walker - he is damning of the FESA and DEC practices and policies on controlling bush fires in the region. A number of times RacingThePlanet staff asked about fires that were seen in the area leading up to the race, and without exception they were told by locals not to worry about them.

I do not believe that the wiki page is the place to get into a tit-for-tat of opinions and references that argue all sides of a particular situation at a race. But if you continue to cherry pick references to suit your opinions then I will be choosing references to counter them. That then becomes more warring and will be about opinion rather than fact again and the page will be locked. Have you read all the submissions from the inquiry or are you only reading newspaper articles on this matter? Let's stick to the facts - as time goes on, new facts emerge

I think ultimately it would be helpful if an experienced Wiki Admin could offer guidance on this issue. Halojones88 (talk) 03:22, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

At least there is some discussion going on now. I removed a couple of unsourced paragraphs - they badly needed a source. The page won't be unlocked until it's clear that everyone involved is able to stop edit warring over content. It's correct that Wikipedia is not for determining who is responsible, nor for presenting a one-sided view of things, which I believe BuddyTK's edits were doing, to a degree. We must provide sources to evidence both sides. In the future, never edit war over a preferred version.
I think you two, and anyone else interested in editing the article, should find references and reach an agreement on how to portray a balanced version of these events. I'm not seeing much suggestion that this is your intention yet, but once some consensus and cooperation is evident, I can get the page protection lifted and we can move on. A good way to start would be to list some sources on the talk.
Further notes: I think people need to be informed of the risks. (quote from BuddyTK) That's not exactly the right kind of thinking. We don't exist to inform people of risks, we just exist to document facts that have already been published in sources. OohBunnies! Leave a message 09:01, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks OohBunnies! and BuddyTK - The focus of the inquiry in Australia is not just into RacingThePlanet's preparations and actions it is also looking at various government's departments processes and actions too - the fully extent of the inquiry focus is available at:

I think it is important to note the full scope of the inquiry for balance.

In relation to the death of Nick Kruse at the Gobi March 2010 the article that is cited with the quote from his brother is the only one in the media about the death, other than the reporting of it at the time by a couple of websites. The press release from RacingThePlanet which includes the timeline of events is reported in a blog from a relative of the race doctor who spoke to Nick shortly before he collapsed. I'm pretty sure that this cannot be used as a wiki reference, but in the interests of providing more background I think it important to note:

The quotes from Nicholas Kruse's brother in the article cited are the opinion of someone who has never taken part in an ultramarathon - there are just a handful of people who are paid any kind of sponsorship money to be professional athletes in this sport. It just isn't a professional sport, so it is moot for this person to suggest that the course should only be run by professionals.

Here is another opinion on the risks involved in competing in desert ultramarathons in an article (I have to paste it as it's from the Hong Kong SCMP a newspaper whose online service is subscription only), quoting Dan Parr the winner of Gobi March 2010 where Nick Kruse died who is commenting on the Kimberley Ultramarthon fire:

Risk and reward

Alvin Sallay

Gone are the days of a bake sale to collect funds for charity. Dan Parr wouldn't dream of selling cookies. He prefers to do it the hard way like running 250 kilometres in the Sahara to raise money for a children's charity.

His wife, Katy, thinks he's mad. Next Sunday he will start running four consecutive marathons and a double marathon in the space of seven days, and all while carrying his own food and equipment.

'Katy thinks I'm nuts,' grins Parr, a former rugby winger for Hong Kong Football Club. 'I ran the Gobi last year but the Sahara is the mother of all deserts. It sounds like fun.'

As a natural athlete, the 34-year-old Parr is well versed in pushing himself to the limit. It was easier on the rugby field when he had teammates around him. But long distance, nay ultra-distance, running is way different. It is lonely and dangerous. This risk factor is what challenges people like Parr.

'In every ultra-marathon and endurance event, especially those in isolated and rugged environments, there is risk. This is precisely why people enter these races. If you want an easy event, go and run a road race or a city marathon. People want to compete in ferocious environments like the Gobi and the Sahara so they can then say, 'I ran an ultra in the desert',' says Parr.

Last month, four ultra runners taking part in a Racing The Planet event in Australia suffered serious burns when they were caught in a bush fire. Parr is pragmatic. He is one of those people who believe a calamity can happen any time, even when you cross the street.

'What happened in Australia was extraordinarily bad luck and there is no amount of individual preparation that can help in that situation,' Parr says. 'It's devastating for the runners and for the ultra community but it's also a cruel reminder that when you are out in these isolated, beautiful and fierce environments, you are at the mercy of nature. In my opinion, it is the responsibility of the individual competitors to understand that risk and to prepare accordingly.'

Parr has been busy preparing for the past three months. The Sahara, the world's second largest desert after Antarctica, is one of the most forbidding places in the world. Heat will be a constant enemy. Most of the distance will be run on sand, hard packed in places but loose in others. Sandstorms are a constant danger. But as Parr says, nature is something you have to take as it comes and you can only prepare for things under your control.

'To train for a race over 250 kilometres you have to do a lot of running and unfortunately there are no short cuts. In order to prepare properly you have to put the time in and that means getting out on to the trails and into the hills whenever you can,' said Parr, who works for sports marketing agency Fast Track.

'I've been running to work most days, and then do two 25-kilometre runs after work during the week and then a big one on Saturday of 40-plus kilometres,' Parr said.

'I also do spinning [exercise bike] classes three or four times a week which is a great cardio workout, but it's all about time on your feet and getting your body ready for the onslaught of running long distances for days on end.

'Sunday is rest and family day. The amount of training is tough, not just on me but on my wife and family as well but I am lucky as Katy is extremely supportive even though she thinks I'm mad. Without her, it would be impossible to commit the time to training and preparing properly,' says Parr, father of Milo, three and Ottilie, one.

Parr wouldn't have been into heavy-duty running if not for peer pressure from a friend, Rowley Aird, who coerced him into taking part in the Gobi March last year. But his love for adventure racing had been born a couple of years earlier when, soon after stepping away from playing rugby, he took up hiking the diverse trails in Hong Kong so as to stay fit.

'A few years ago I got roped into doing an adventure race with a friend in Macau and we did quite well. After that we decided to try another race in Singapore, and that was the first time I really started running the trails on a regular basis and training quite hard,' he said.

'Unfortunately, the Singapore race was a disaster as I arranged to borrow a bike from a friend and it turned out it was a road bike. I didn't have time to get another so had to try to ride the mountain bike trails on a racing bike. Unsurprisingly, I got a puncture after about five minutes and had to ride the bike with a flat for about 20 kilometres.

'We didn't win in Singapore but my enthusiasm for adventure racing and trail racing was born and I started doing more races and more running and it turned out that I wasn't bad, winning a few King of the Hills and Action Asia Sprint races.'

Parr entered his first MacLehose Trailwalker in 2008, finishing in 18 hours. The long-distance bug had bitten him hard. He did the MacLehose trail again the following year and shaved off four hours. The friend who had goaded him into his first adventure race, Aird, 'upped the ante' and egged Parr to run the Gobi March last year. He did, and ended up winning it.

'Fear was my motivation for my first ultra. Fear of the unknown, of how I would perform, of what lay ahead and of not letting people down who had sponsored me, backed me and challenged me to do it. I wanted to perform well and that drove me on to train as hard as I could. There is a great saying: 'It's not the will to win, but the will to train to win that counts'. That sentiment kept me going on the long, painful training sessions.

'My motivation for the Sahara is different. Now that I've done one I don't have the fear factor but there is the fear of letting myself down by not giving a good account.'

And as he'll be raising funds for Sparks, a charity that funds vital research into a host of paediatric medical issues which affect mums-to-be, babies and children, Parr will be given wings.

'When I'm stumbling across the Sahara and dreaming of air-conditioning and cold beers, during such low moments of the races, knowing that my pain is generating cash for such a phenomenal cause will be a huge motivator,' Parr says.

Halojones88 (talk) 01:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

OohBunnies!: Thanks for being involved and helping me understand how Wikipedia works. Yes I am new here, making mistakes and learning as I go.

Halojones88: I can appreciate your perspective and there are a lot of points here. It doesn't seem like an easy set of issues. So, let me ask how we can reach agreement about this page and move on:

1) Are we in agreement that the occurrence of the Kimberley and Gobi incidents (independent of any blame) should be documented?

2) To what level should accusations against RacingThePlanet be documented?

It seems to me we should wait for the Kimberly inquiry to finish and document those results, if that sounds reasonable to you. Meanwhile, for Gobi, I think we should keep the article currently referenced, and you could add your own as a counterpoint.

I'm also a little unclear to what level we should be using primary accounts (people, personal experience) vs secondary sources (press). It's a Wikipedia inexperience question I guess. Should we ask some of the people involved in these races to comment here on the talk page? Are there any watching? I'm guessing you're affiliated with RacingThePlanet (indeed, there's a warning on this page about contributor/subject close connection), and it would be good to hear some other perspectives. BuddyTK (talk) 14:32, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi BuddyTK: Those incidents took place, they are facts about those events. Facts have a place on wiki. As Bunny says - informing people of risks is not the reason for wikipedia. I think the fact that competitors have been caught up in a bush-fire and that a competitor has died from complications of heat-stroke amply demonstrate that there are risks involved with going out into the middle of the wilderness into harsh environments and taking on this type of physical challenge.

Why don't you post here what you think is reasonable and I can add my comments so we can come to agreement Halojones88 (talk) 03:22, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Ok, how about this:

1) Gobi: leave as is, you can add your reference as a counterpoint if you would like

2) Kimberley: leave the section below as is, but move to the correct section (understand that Australia 2010 was a different race), and update with inquiry results after the inquiry is finished:

Competitors Kate Sanderson, Turia Pitt and Michael Hull and Shaun Van Der Merwe were severely burnt when they encountered a large wildfire. They were gravely injured; Sanderson's injuries lead to the amputation of her foot[citation needed].

BuddyTK (talk) 03:41, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi BuddyTK. I would suggest:

Gobi: A Shanghai-based competitor died of complications from heatstroke after competing in the 2010 Gobi March.

Kimberley : Competitors Kate Sanderson, Turia Pitt and Michael Hull and Shaun Van Der Merwe were severely burnt when they encountered a large wildfire, and RacingThePlanet CEO Mary Gadams suffered minor burns. They were gravely injured; Sanderson's injuries lead to the amputation of her foot[citation needed]. The organiser's and Western Australian government departments and agencies preparation and actions are presently the focus of an inquiry by the Legislative Assembly of the Parliament of Western Australia. Halojones88 (talk) 03:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to get the page protection lifted now. I trust you guys, and hopefully anyone else joining in, to not edit war in future. Remember, talk pages are your friend. Compromises can always be reached and it's better to work together to find information that's as neutral and factual as possible. :) OohBunnies! Leave a message 20:44, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Bunnies, thanks for moderating.

Halojones88, about Kimberley, your suggestion is fine--I actually didn't mean to cut those last parts that you included. Most importantly, let's wait until after the inquiry and document those results.

About Gobi, you suggested I go to blogs, here's one maybe too unofficial for referencing but provides perspective:

"RTP explicitly says on their website that their races are open to participants of ALL fitness levels. Misleading if you ask me. I absolutely loved my experience in the Atacama but it just seemed to me that wanted to make as much money as possible."

"I recently completed the RTP Atacama race and I must say from my experience that there are not enough safety measures put in place. most importantly there are not enough sweeps of the course and no way to get some one out to a hospital quickly. As far as I know there is no helicopter evacuation available. I don’t know what happened in this situation, but in the case that a compeitor needs urgent medical attention regular sweeps and quick access to a medivac would significantly increase the chance of survival. Its a dangerous sport but it is the responsibility of the organisers to ensure the risk are minimzed and that they have the capability to deal with a real emergency."

"It is so sad about Nic but as you said Claire, it is surprising that it hasn’t happened sooner... in my limited experience, I have noticed that the top 25% of the runner which I have been a part of have the best time concerning health and care. You’re in before it gets terribly hot or we’re out of the heat sooner. Slower runners and walkers need to take more electrolytes and hydrate. I’m always surprised that people in the races don’t monitor these things better."

There are also some counterpoints on the same blog. As before, I suggest we leave "A Shanghai-based competitor died of complications from heatstroke after competing in the 2010 Gobi March" with the reference, and you can add yours as counterpoint if you want. BuddyTK (talk) 11:58, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Chile1234567, I saw that your edit from 14:17, 22 July 2012‎ deleted my previous edit without comment or explanation. If you wish to discuss it, please do so here in the Talk section. Thanks, BuddyTK (talk) 09:10, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Halojones88, it looks like you deleted the contested part of my Gobi entry as soon as page protection was lifted. I've added it back. It's my understanding we should reach agreement here on the talk page before you make an edit on that subject.

You can always add your own entry and reference, instead of just deleting mine. BuddyTK (talk) 13:49, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi folks, Do we have a reference for "and RacingThePlanet CEO Mary Gadams suffered second-degree burns" which was added to the para I wrote. None of the evidence to the Inquiry mentions any injury to Ms Gadams; quite the resverse: she claimed to have seen no smoke at all whilst she ran through the area, to the disbelief of her questioner. The Inquiry did ask detailed questions on Gadams' capacity to manage the race whilst competiting in it, and I doubt the Members would have neglected to ask if that capacity had been impaired by an inquiry sustained whilst competiting. Gdt (talk) 01:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Halojones88, as far as I can tell you provided the information about injuries to Ms Gadams in your edit of 10:07, 16 May 2012 (ie, the edit immediately after page protection was removed). Could you please provide a reference? A reference that clears up the mystery of how Ms Gadams could be injured by the fire and yet state in her evidence that she did not see fire or smoke would be greatly appreciated. Gdt (talk) 01:27, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I can't find any reference in the Inquiry evidence or in the News Ltd or Fairfax archives. The News Ltd photo archive seems to show an uninjured Ms Gadams in the afternoon of that day. So I'm treating "and RacingThePlanet CEO Mary Gadams suffered second-degree burns" as vandalism. Oh course it's welcome back if we have a citation. Gdt (talk) 02:21, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi there,

I didn't add that Mary Gadams had received second-degree burns, I only am aware that she received burns. There are a number of articles that mention Mary Gadam's burns as well as in her spoken evidence to the inquiry.,,,

Not sure why you found it so difficult to find the sources that I have just found. Took me a couple of minutes. Halojones88 (talk) 08:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

In answer to Gdt re Mary Gadams managing the race - she quite clearly states in her testimony that she wasn't managing the race. She was competing. You will see that the Event Director was a women named Samantha Fanshawe, the Course Director was Carlos Prieto Garcia and the Event Manager was Riitta Hanninen, these were the senior management who were coordinating the race. You'll see if around page 17. Halojones88 (talk) 10:35, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Please can whoever wrote the sentence after the number of competitors explain why it should be included, why was it contentious?

41 competitors began the event. This was a contentious matter during Ms Gadams' evidence at the Inquiry, as some funding from TourismWA was contingent on there being more than 40 competitors. Ms Gadams stated that the number of non-paying competitors in "a typical race is five or six".Halojones88 (talk) 11:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Undoing edits due to vandalism and highly subjective content that needs to be discussed and agreed on in Talk before it's added to the page as per admin instructions[edit]

I am going to undo all the edits since user Diligaf started making changes. The edits that I undertook balanced what had been written by Ekcaver and BuddyTalks. None of what they had written was deleted. This new user Diligaf has deleted factual content and has vandalised the page. As Bunnies and other moderators have said, if someone is going to delete content or add subjective content then it needs to be discussed here before it is added to the page. I suggest that the Kimberley Ultramarathon Inquiry has it's own page as there is almost more content on the inquiry than on RacingThePlanet the company. The tone of the content being added to the page and the fact that Diligaf is vandalising the page shows that people are using this wiki page to attack the company, which has no place in an encyclopaedia.Halojones88 (talk) 03:10, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Given your connection with the company, you're best advised at this point to read plain and simple conflict of interest guide before making any further edits to this article. Please take particular note of point 9. Socrates2008 (Talk) 11:24, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed[edit]

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Dana boomer (talk) 19:10, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

I am trying to update this page, which has clearly been vandalized. The information is not fair and balanced for a company that is 11 years old and is primarily a online ecomerce retailer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blacklightningkimberley (talkcontribs) 09:20, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

I would like to clean up this page as the content is outdated, much of it not correct, and related to an incident that is not affiliated with this company.2601:C0:8102:E051:FDC1:660E:B034:CAAB (talk) 14:53, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 December 2017[edit]

I would like to update this page. I am assisting RacingThePlanet to update the information. Can the protection be removed please. Governmentcoverup (talk) 10:02, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. DRAGON BOOSTER 12:42, 16 December 2017 (UTC)