Talk:SS Marine Robin (1943)

Doubtful this ship was at "Normandy invasion"

Reliable sources show the ship not in the area but operating in the Mediterranean on first voyage after delivery 29 April 1944 through October 1944. Further, large transports of this type being at an invasion would be highly unusual. Attack transports are generally at invasions with this type involved in built up in rear areas, i.e., types arriving in U.K. staging areas. Sources in current article of some question as local news and possibly P.R. Whole article needs rework with reliable sources and history. Palmeira (talk) 17:29, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Response to email question: The claim of presence at Normandy is not supported in WSA/MARAD information. MARAD shows delivery of the ship "4/29/44 11:20AM Chester Pa.". Troopships of World War II by Roland W. Charles (The Army Transportation Association, 1947) states the ship's maiden voyage was a direct transit from Norfolk to Naples.

The MARINE ROBIN's maiden voyage was from Norfolk, Va., to Naples where she was locally operated for two months before returning, via Gibraltar, to New York. She left New York on 14 October 1944 for the first of her next three voyages (to Plymouth, the Mersey or Swansea) . . .

So assuming the ship was loaded and got underway by noon of the day of delivery we are through June operating locally out of Italy. Realistically the ship took weeks to a month to go full operational and loaded so that period probably extends well into summer. And then the ship went directly by Gibraltar to New York with the next voyage in October. Charles is not perfect, but had access to all records and it is unlikely he'd leave out a side trip to the big one at Normandy. Those "next three voyages" are precisely what the ordinary troop transport did, pour in large numbers of troops — not combat loaded — to meet up with combat gear in the U.K. and then cross fully equipped, combat loaded, to join the breakout from the beaches and hedgerows.

"American Merchant Marine Ships at Normandy in June 1944" from the generally well researched and accurate in such matters American Merchant Marine at War makes no mention of the ship under either cargo or troop ships. Marine Raven is mentioned and the only "Robin" is the 1920 freighter Robin Gray. There were "AP" type ships there, but they tended to be Navy or even Army crewed. WSA troop transports were there, fewer, but Marine Robin does not appear with them. The exception appears to be sources connected to the Great Lakes region and later configuration. That is of note. In more than one case a local "reliable" source such as a newspaper or even university has picked up such a thread and it then gets repeated and repeated. For years some adamantly (some for commercial reasons) asserted the ship used in filming Mr. Roberts was not Hewell. USNS New Bedford explains how that started in an "official" but unreliable source. This could be such a case. I'd be very interested in sources supporting this ship's presence not related to regional sources or the later ownership and configuration on the Lakes. Palmeira (talk) 21:56, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Conclusions after searching sources: Marine Robin was almost certainly not at Normandy within the time frame of the landings. The ship was involved in the Allied invasion of Southern France on 15 August 1944 (Operation Dragoon). The WSA transport has an interesting history that can be expanded in the article to a great extent.

Weighing against "D-Day" are two reliable lists of ships that were there that do not include Marine Robin. NEPTUNE OPERATION PLAN NO. 2-44; COMMUNICATION PLAN (ONCOWEST) begins a list of vessels and call signs on page 5 of 12. The full document includes recognition signals and such for small vessels up to major combatants. Marine Robin is not anywhere in that listing. Neither is the ship listed among the "American Merchant Marine Ships at Normandy in June 1944" at the American Merchant Marine at War site.

On the other side are positive indications of where the ship actually was on that date. Referencing the discussion above we know the ship was delivered to WSA 29 April 1944. Then we have Troopships of World War II with "maiden voyage was from Norfolk, Va., to Naples where she was locally operated for two months before returning, via Gibraltar, to New York" indicating a continuous trip from New York to Italy and vicinity extending well into June even if departing days after delivery. Now there is clear evidence the ship was in New York the day before the landings at Normandy (And how much Charles in his sketches of the ships may leave out). A "Manifest of Alien Passengers" signed by the Immigration Inspector on 5 June 1944 for arrival of SS Marine Robin in New York departing from Kingston, Jamaica, B.W.I. on May 31, 1944 transporting "Agricultural workers" is conclusive. A check of the U.S. register for the first year the ship would be listed shows only one ship with that name and Marine Robin with managing owner as WSA. Best estimate is that the "maiden voyage" Charles notes is as a troop ship. Between 29 April delivery the ship made at least one WSA "commercial" lift without troops in its first month.

Searches indicate all "at Normandy" references are regional (Great Lakes) and associated with the later incarnation as Joseph H. Thompson. Their sources are obscure.

Conclusion is that the weight of evidence does not support Normandy but is clear on DRAGOON. Guess? Somewhere "invasion of France" got translated to "Normandy" and into regional records as people looked into the history of Joseph H. Thompson. Palmeira (talk) 15:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)