Talk:Sayville, New York
|WikiProject Long Island||(Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)|
Better check that it's not actually named for the same Lord Saye and Sele for whom Old Saybrook, Connecticut is named. William Fiennes, 1582-1662, succeeded as 8th Baron Saye and Sele in 1613 and was created 1st Viscount in 1624. He was appointed a Privy Councillor to King Charles II in 1660. Wetman 06:45, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- That's an interesting possibility given how often land was owned by nobility in the colonies. I was trying to round out this article using online sources. My main interest is in Father Divine's connection, but I do think your suggestion warrants further investigation. Searching for "Saye" and "Sayville" turns up nothing relevant on Google, but the Saye explanation strikes me as more plausible than misspelled "Seaville." That story has the flavor of urban legend to me. I'll have to check the library. Cool Hand Luke 07:22, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Actually, the "Seaville" misspelling is more or less true. According to a few published accounts, the name was decided on back in the late 1800s when the town had to submit an official designation to the Postal Service. One account has it as "Seville," another as "Seaville," but it's generally believed that it was a misspelling that stuck. Up until that point, the town had been called "Over South."
Try East on the Great South Bay by Harry Havermeyer for a good recount of Sayville's history, especially the 19th & 20th Centures
Agreed on East on the Great South Bay. Very informative.
- There are MANY theories of how Sayville was named Sayville. Other theories is that "Say" is a corruption of "South" and another that it was supposed to be Seaville, but the US post office would not use the name since it was already used, so they used the biblical name "Say" for "Sea." Then there is the "Salem Village" theory since the Edwards were Puritans that came to LI from Salem, and the "Barber of Seville" theory since that was a very popular play at the time. In reality, one theory is as good as the other since no one knows.
The "Salem" thing is completely wrong -- it was started by someone who runs a very sensationalistic website that does its best to connect Sayville to many things that are quite untrue. The "Salem" theory is mostly conjecture and I'd never ever heard of it until that.
Indeed, the "Salem" theory is bunk. John Edwards was born in Easthampton and his family was from County Kent, England. Existent80 June 28, 2005 21:07 (UTC)
NOT BUNK! The Edwards came from the Salem are before coming to LOng Island, and they were witch accusers: longislandgenealogy.com/witch.html
- Except that it is bunk. There's no direct connection between Salem, MA and Sayville, NY tpanarese
Let's try to get this thing straight once and for all. *If* the Edwards family indeed came from Salem, why would that lead to "Salem Village" being corrupted into "Sayville"? How would this change occur? When was the town ever recorded as "Salem Village"? Why would a Salem, MA expatriate suddenly begin misspelling the name of his native town? The same holds for the "Seville" theory for that matter. I don't think one can claim that "one theory is as good as another" when certain ones have major holes in them. Can we get any proof of a *causal* Salem/Sayville connection? If not, I think this theory needs to stay in the realm of fantasy and conspiracy theorists. And BTW, wikipedia etiquette is to sign your name at the end of a discussion post with 4 tildes. Existent80 21:30, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
These are ALL legends - none of them provable - there's no reason NOT to list this one. ALSO: spelling was NOT standardiSed then - possibly many people wrote "Saylem" - but if Edwards truEly came from "Salem Village", all the more reafon to include it --JimWae 21:55, 2005 July 23 (UTC)
- Yes, but the only one with significant evidence to back it up is the theory that "Sayville" was a misspelling of "Seaville." The others don't have much to back them up other than minor possible coincidences and wild, unsubstantiated claims. It's similar to the Marlon Brando corrections that you rightfully upheld. Tpanarese 17:10, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
Well I have to report that googling "Saylem" did not support my idea - but if ever documents or maps turn up with that spelling, it would certainly be more evidence. It's mostly used as a person's name. Old spellings on old documents are not always entered into webpages. As for the misspelling story, it just does not ring true to me - unless people often spelled sea as "say". It seems more likely he misheard than misspelled -- or that something else is going on. --JimWae 17:49, 2005 July 24 (UTC)
- Actually, the writing is what did it in. I'd have to go back and look at the actual text iirc, the handwriting caused "Seaville" to be misread as "Sayville" and the postal service decided to stick with that name because of the overabundance of Seavilles and lack of Sayvilles. Tpanarese 03:24, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
- The best theory is that Sayville was named after Lord Saye, especially since the Edwards were Puritans. In addition, The Edwards came to East Hampton from Salem.
This Marlon Brando thing is getting kind of strange. According to "A History of the Sayville Community," Brando was picked out to play in "I Remember Mama" at the Sayville Summer Playhouse in 1944. He was approached while sitting at a bar in Cherry Grove. Although it seems that he was in attendance at the New School for Social Research, it is not clear if he was expelled (the Washington Post article cited in the Wikipedia article does not mention it, but then, it's an obituary). Either way, it's not relevant to *Sayville* as a town, so I think tpanarese was right in cutting it. Existent80 June 28, 2005 20:58 (UTC)
- I was using "A History of the Sayville Community" as a guide as well, and it seems that all references to Brando being expelled from school in Sayville come from the same source. I think it's all being spread by the same person, fwiw. Thanks for the backup. Tpanarese
Cynthia Blair of Newsday said that Brando got expelled from a Sayville school: http://www.newsday.com/features/custom/ithappened/longisland/ny-iholi062904story,0,5139728.htmlstory?coll=4thrail-bottom-promo
- No, it says "he threw him out of the company". This is an example of jumping to conclusions & why wikipedians need to be careful with language - and suspect even their own sources - even Newsday sometimes jumps to conclusions - especially in "background" articles --JimWae 18:47, 2005 July 20 (UTC)
The "Company" is part of the New School! Cynthia Blair said, "Dramatic Workshop at the New School for Social Research." Mitchell Freedman of Newsday said, "Brando was in a production of the Dramatic Workshop at the New School for Social Research. " and "Piscator took the play to Sayville, but upon learning Brando spent the night with an actress named Blossom Plumb, he was thrown out of the company."
Go to the New School's website: www.newschool.edu/academic/drama.htm It says: "New School in the 1940s, Erwin Piscator's Dramatic Workshop taught promising young theater people including Marlon Brando"
PISCATOR WAS A TEACHER AT THE NEW SCHOOL!!! Piscator threw Brando out of the school at SAYVILLE!
- Yes, but can one teacher throw a student out of a school? - and even if one could, being thrown out of the company meant he was out of the play - not out of the school--JimWae 07:21, 2005 August 1 (UTC)
Newsday specically said he was thrown out, as did several Brando biographies. In addition, it was a private school 60 years ago. It was a different world.
The acting company was part of the school.
- No, Newsday says "thrown out of company" - unless a source can be found for more, it would be unencyclopedic to assert more --JimWae 16:02, 2005 August 2 (UTC)
THe company was PART of the New School. Mitchell Freedman of Newsday said, "Brando was in a production of the Dramatic Workshop at the New School for Social Research." What more proof than you want than that.
OK smarty pants, who owned the "Company" in Sayville, and who paid the rent for the classrooms??? It was the New School.
- Yes, it does seem the company was sponsored by the New School - but being thrown out of a school production is not equivalent to being thrown out of the school itself - usually there are disciplinary measures tried before complete expulsion from school.--JimWae 06:48, 2005 August 3 (UTC)
- Jim, this may be a long shot, but checking old issues of The Suffolk County News, which is a local Sayville paper might be a better source to clear this confusion up. The paper's been in business since the late 1800s and may have reported on at least some of Brando's work while he was in Sayville. Tpanarese 12:14, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
- I added this: "an acting company, of the New School, in Sayville" This is accrurate either way, whether he was kicked out of the entire school or not.
FACTS: 1. Brando was a student at the New School. 2. In the summer, teaching was done by the New School teachers, including Piscator in Sayville. 3. Brando was kicked out.
When I last looked, an entity that teaches, collects tuition and has a license from the state to teach is a school. The students were assigned to Sayville, and they got grades for what they did in Sayville. Brando was kicked out of this "entity." You mean it is not a school?
Final word on how Sayville got its name
After having a back and forth about "Salem" and "theories" and other disproven stories, I looked up the story of how Sayville got its name in "A History of the Sayville Community" and fixed the paragraph in this entry according to that source. The meeting date was two years off, and I paraprhased most of what the book says about the meeting and the spelling error and how the Postmaster General more or less decided that "Sayville" would be the town's name. Nowhere in any of the accounts does the name "Salem" appear (though "Saville" is briefly mentioned, which was kind of funny and I tacked on at the end there, as it is tacked on in the book), so this should be the final word on the topic. Tpanarese 03:10, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
==NOT SO FINAL
1. The "Salem Village" was always just an old legend
2. The postmaster theory was always just one of many theories.
- The "Salem Village" was a fabrication and the postmaster story is the true story. The history stays. Tpanarese 18:14, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Newsday and New Warriors
The newsday link left goes to a very data-intensive page. (The Brando link that was there goes to a 'not found at all' page).
Also, Sayville gets some 'love' in the comic book 'New Warriors #4, October 1990. Fiction-wise, it is the site of a genetic research company run by idiots who control superhumans. Just thought fans of the town would like to know. Lots42 05:35, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
New External Link Suggestion
ShortListLI.com contains a Map of Sayville's restaurants, shops and other sights. Its a visual aid that shows people interested in the town where to park and where to go. The page is not advertising focused, as it allows local businesses to place free listings. Do you think this would be worthy as an addition?