Talk:Shadow Work (Trapt album)

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Metal

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Metal, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of heavy metal music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MetalWikipedia:WikiProject MetalTemplate:WikiProject MetalHeavy Metal articles

Notability

Please read WP:NALBUM. There is no question that Trapt themselves are notable, or that Loudwire is a reliable source. However, the band's notability does not automatically make every album they release notable, the album itself must be discussed in depth in multiple reliable sources. And announcements of the album or singles' release do not demonstrate notability either. In short, the only notice this album has received is in selling 600 copies, and that's already mentioned in the band's article, it's not enough to justify a separate article. Richard3120 (talk) 12:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I had thought about creating the article, because I figured it would be controversial, but the truth is that the album was largely ignored my the music industry. Most sources are brief notes on songs (that didn’t chart) or about how poorly it sold. I think there’s a source or two about how the frontman made the (questionable) claim that this was going to be a top five album in the history of music. That’s about it. I don’t know how one can write an article around sourcing like that... Sergecross73 msg me 13:46, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I redirected it twice, because I really don't see that there's anything else to be said about the album, given that it's been out over a month and nobody's taken a blind bit of notice of it. The edit history shows that it's more likely to be the target of IP vandals who disagree with the frontman's views (I don't condone this vandalism at all, the singer's entitled to his opinions) than any constructive edits about the album itself. Richard3120 (talk) 13:59, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I feel like it should be redirected or moved to draft space until there’s enough to warrant its own article. There’s not enough sourcing or content to warrant its own article as is. Sergecross73 msg me 14:58, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This source - https://2911.us/trapts-latest-album-shadow-work-available-now/ - also concerns me. I looked into it, because I figured with a name like that, it was an obscure Wordpress blog or something. But it’s actually a marketing firm. One that lists Trapt as a client. So I’m starting to get some WP:PROMOTION/WP:COI concerns here too. Sergecross73 msg me 15:14, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any COI issues with the article creator's edits, to be fair to them... I can see from their edit history that they tend to edit on issues regarding conservative/liberal bias, and their interest in this band and album may come from the frontman's political views and opinions on COVID-19 and masks. Richard3120 (talk) 20:02, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, the wording isn’t promotional, there’s too little there to even POV-push. I just mean I’m concerned that the PR piece was dug up. Sergecross73 msg me 01:33, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the album is notable enough for its own article. All other Trapt albums are present, and it is also arguably notable BECAUSE of the Twitter controversy. With Trapt themselves being a notable group their albums are also the same. There is no WP:COI in trying to make an article for a new album. Why are they suddenly unworthy of the article after coming out as Conservative and anti mask? I don't think it's right to deny Shadow Work an article when every other album by the band has one. If it were a demo tape or EP I'd understand the reasoning, but from here it looks like Trapt is being blacklisted for their Twitter posts. My political leaning also has nothing to do with anything; if you check my user page, I edit mainly pages conserning music and gaming.TJD2 (talk) 23:35, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTINHERITED answers most of your questions, and most of your arguments violate it. Also note that the band’s twitter content has no bearing on this article. They’re not being “blacklisted”. Quite the opppsite, it’s given them quite a bit of reliable source coverage, so it’s been documented heavily at Trapt#Social media use. But none of that has been about their album, so it has no bearing on what is happening at this article. Sergecross73 msg me 23:40, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It’s been a couple days now. Unless someone is going to present some valid notability arguments (that don’t violate WP:NOTINHERITED) I’m going to redirect the article again... Sergecross73 msg me 20:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]