Talk:Stella Bonasera

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Untitled

Can you please mention aresanob? Alot of people are looking for that in searches every time it re-runs. Then I don't think the next episode tells you what happened ( I don't think they re-run in chronological order). It's very frustrating. If you made a whole page on it - I bet it would get ALOT of hits. http://www.theglitch.ws/2006/04/19/aresanob/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.132.7.103 (talk) 06:20, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion

No real means of writing it out of universe style and there is little substance apart from the episode by episode recount of her actions. Anything pre Season 4 is not sourceable due to the changes on the show's official site. Any crucial information on the character of Stella can be mentioned in the main article, namely that she's Mac's second in command and that her career started in Brooklyn North. Travellingcari (talk) 02:40, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ETA: Dependent on the outcome of this PROD, I'd nominate: Mac Taylor, Danny Messer, Aiden Burn, Donald Flack Jr., Lindsay Monroe, Sheldon Hawkes, Adam Ross and Sid Hammerback on similar rationale, however I didn't want to over PROD if there was reason for this not to go. All are: virtually verbatim copyrights from the CBS site, Wiki and other fan sites and have no notability outside CSI:NY ergo can never exist outside an in-universe style. Travellingcari (talk) 03:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you feel every article on every CSI:NY character cannot be cleaned up and expanded? Gil Grissom, the main character from the original CSI series is currently a good article so obviously there is room to expand CSI articles out of universe. I'm contesting this prod as your reason for wanting to delete it is "there aren't sources anywhere" which you have not demonstrated but rather speculated on. Redfarmer (talk) 15:56, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just want to clear up one thing that appears to be a misunderstanding either by how I phrased it or how you read what I meant or whatever... I don't want to delete the minor characters completely. My point there was that there is redundancy between those listed there who have their own pages (Adam and Sid, mainly). The information doesn't need to be repeated in two places, hence not seeing the need for a merge since it's already covered in at least two locations. And for the even smaller characters, namely Angell

"a detective who sometimes briefs the CSIs at their crime scenes. Mutual interest between her and Flack has been hinted at." - that is not verifiable. From WP:Fict's section on [[Wikipedia:Fict#Defining_notability_for_fiction | defining notability for fiction] itself, " A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.

For articles about fictional concepts, reliable secondary sources cover information such as sales figures, critical and popular reception, development, cultural impact, and merchandise; this information describes the real-world aspects of the concept, so it is real-world content.

Based on this reasoning and the above excerpts, fictional concepts can be presumed notable if they have received substantial coverage in reliable secondary sources.""

I'm sorry but in no way to any of the characters meet that. Don't get me wrong, I'm a *huge* CSI:NY fan, but I'm talking about this from an encyclopedic POV.

As to sources, can you find any sources that talk about the character of Stella that aren't fan/CSI: NY sites because I can't. Yes, there are 30,000 ghits but it's not out of universe discussion of the character. There are also huge issues with other sections of these which are copied from other sites, verbatim, causing copyright problems. Many of the sites are copied from one another with no idea of where the information once came from. A lot of this is more suitable for a fan guide, but not Wikipedia in my opinion.

That said, it's just my opinion. You're just as entitled to your own hence why I proposed it for deletion and didn't nominate it. I honestly do not know if this would pass AfD, regardless of the fact that Gil has standing as a "good article". I have a bit more to say on Flack, but I'll do it on that talk page instead of hogging Stella's ;) Travellingcari (talk) 17:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

These are cleanup issues you're talking about and not deletion issues. Being that, along with Sinese's Taylor, she's one of the main characters of one of the most popular CBS dramas on the air, there are sources. Redfarmer (talk) 17:10, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

and as I said initially, when you clean it up, there isn't much left that couldn't be put into two sentences in the show's article. "Stella Bonasera, played by Melina Kanakaredes", is Mac Taylor's second in command. Her career is believed to have started in narcotics in Brooklyn North." That's what the article boils down to. A lot of the other aspects are unverifiable especially since the show itself had errors i.e. s1 her being at St. Basil's until 18 and then in s3 she has a foster sister without explaining how that occured. And neither are verifiable since episodes don't count as sources. See what I'm saying? Travellingcari (talk) 17:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Redfarmer, i kind of think she's right. The only one i disagree on redirecting and merging with List of CSI: NY characters is Mac Taylor, there probably are loads of sources for him. This would eliminate the WP:CRUFT that's quickly invading all of the CSI characters articles (see Greg Sanders!). But Travellingcari, i hope all of this crusade you are leading also means you are the one that's going to do the merging and writing, because if all you want is replace the text with a redirect and then go away...well that's not ok. By the way, i quickly found a couple of refs that could be useful; here is one on Stella's HIV special and here is one on CSI:NY's debut.--Yamanbaiia^{(free hugs!)} 18:04, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yamanbaiia, I would absolutely help to work on these. I'd be limited to CSI: NY as I don't know enough about the others other than the basics. I don't believe in tag and run as some other editors do, that's whu I wanted to start a discussion. If I thought these were unsalvageable (looks wrong however I spell it!) without question I'd have taken them straight to AfD but I think they could be salvaged. I had just found the HIV special article, thanks for the other. I'm actually working on a version of this, as I have recently done with the other articles.

I think we all want these articles to be good for Wiki -- there's a place for step by step character moments, but Wiki isn't it. OTOH, arcs like Stella's HIV gained coverage outside of the fan world and therefore might pass WP: NOT. I don't know if I'm going to get the revised text up today but it would be within the next couple at the latest. If it turns out that there is too much on Mac or another that needs to be included, we can revisit it at that point. Thoughts? I like discussions, they make progress. Travellingcari (talk) 18:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree most of them could go but I'd fight hard for Mac and Stella, since they're the main characters of the show. Redfarmer (talk) 10:33, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, *if* there's enough sourceable information that isn't purely recounts of their steps through the show. This is what I'm working on in draft form at the moment to see what's out there. Input always appreciated. Travellingcari (talk) 12:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stella had extensive coverage due to the HIV storyline last season and Gary Sinise has given plenty of interviews on Mac. One I remember is a bumper interview for Britain's Five similar to the one quoted in the Gil Grissom article. Next time I see the bumper interview I'll merge it into the article. They usually air on Saturday and Sunday nights. Redfarmer (talk) 18:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think there is a need of taking these to AFD, just be bold, merge, and redirect them to the big List. --Yamanbaiia^{(free hugs!)} 18:24, 20 January 2008

(UTC)

I agree, what I'd meant to say which got muddled was initially if I thought they were unsalvageable I'd have done so. I think they're very much fixable. I just didn't want to start an edit war in case others didn't agree. Travellingcari (talk) 18:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I don't know that you need to include Peyton Driscoll in the page at all. She was a recurring character for one season who was basically a love interest for Mac and was not a main character most episodes. Sid Hammerback and Adam Ross, on the other hand, have appeared in virtually every episode the last few seasons though they're not considered main characters. Just a suggestion. Redfarmer (talk) 18:34, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree, I think there are a number of people who don't necessarily warrant being listed. I know AJ Buckley was added to the credits this year and I think Robert Joy was as well. I don't see the reason behind including minimal characters whose time have essentially come and gone, i.e. Inspector Gerard, Angel (ok, she's there more often but not enough to have warranted any press that I found, Shane Casey, ... It's hard to make cut and dry which is why I'm drafting and playing before taking it live. Travellingcari (talk) 18:42, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Actually no one was added to the credits this year. A.J. Buckley is listed as "Special Guest Star" and Robert Joy is still just a guest star, even though they both essentially appear in ever episode. Redfarmer (talk) 18:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - OK, don't know what I was thinking about then. Maybe that AJ is now "special guest".... I watch it every week but you know how it is when you try to remember something on the spot. Thanks for your help. Travellingcari (talk) 19:23, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      - No problem. Redfarmer (talk) 19:24, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

mention

I know little 'bout it but as little as I know I was surprised I had to check elsewhere to find her connecions with the episode "Grounds for Deception" which shall be mentioned in here!!!Undead Herle King (talk) 16:56, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]