Talk:Suicide of Eden Knight/Archive 1

Archive 1

Protect this page

Can we at least semi-protect this page from vandalism? Or would we need an admin to do that? It’s only a matter of time before transphobes find it. Deviantsemicolon618 (talk) 20:42, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Enwiki's page protection policy is non-preemptive. So far there's only been a single disruptive edit, and you'd be hard pressed to find any admin who'd protect the page because of that. If there's more disruption in the future, then a request can be made at WP:RFPP. Sideswipe9th (talk) 20:44, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Possible to add photograph of Knight?

Still relatively new to editing on Wikipedia, so I'm unsure of relevant conventions around photos, especially of deceased people. Would appreciate clarification about the potential of adding a photo of Knight to the article.. UnapolMaker (talk) 00:09, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

@UnapolMaker Hi and welcome! The important thing when adding photos is to find one that you have the rights to use. If it's your own work, you can submit that to Wikimedia Commons no problem. If you have explicit permission from the creator, that's also fine (either if the creator tells you in writing or if they upload to a site like Flickr where you can choose what license under which to release your photos). Or if the work has entered the public domain (which isn't going to be the case here). There are some pages on Wikipedia where the image is none of those -- where the image is still copyrighted, but Wikipedia is using a low-quality version of the image under Fair Use. I don't think that Fair Use would work here. The best bet is if you have a photograph that you took yourself, or if you know someone who can provide a photograph that they took (and is willing to confirm this to Wikimedia). RexSueciae (talk) 02:16, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

@UnapolMakerI've added a photo of Eden and a photo of some graffiti memorializing her. However, I need someone to add the proper documentation to it so that it isn't taken down from wikimedia. I think its important that these photos are on here, and I think these images should both be fair use as they were published on social media.

I know its possible to keep them up, as for example, Tyler Clementi's facebook profile pic is on the wikipedia page about his suicide. However I'll need someone more experienced than me to go to Wikimedia and add the necessary information. I've included the links to the original tweets in my posting of the photos on there. Radiantgoose420 (talk) 02:29, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

@Radiantgoose420 Hi there! So the selfie of Eden would likely be acceptable on Wikipedia under Fair Use (like Tyler Clementi's photograph, it would be used to illustrate this article, should be reduced in resolution, and there shouldn't be other images available that could be used instead) -- however, that means the selfie could not be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons (since Commons is only for stuff that is properly licensed or public domain) and would be hosted locally on Wikipedia. As for the photo of the graffiti, if you're not the one who took the photo then you'd need to get permission from the copyright holder (whomever took the photo), either by having them email the Wikimedia people or have them tweet it or whatever -- however there's an additional problem there, because it's a photograph of another work of art (the graffiti) so then there's the question of whether the artist who spraypainted that has given permission -- I don't know if it would be feasible to use that photo in particular. At least, if my understanding of the policy is correct. RexSueciae (talk) 03:07, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

There are pictures of random people's graffiti all over the graffiti page so I feel like the fact that we don't have the artist's permission shouldn't be an issue. Radiantgoose420 (talk) 03:33, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Also the photos have now been taken down, which feels stupid. Better to leave them up until someone can come along and fix them. Radiantgoose420 (talk) 03:34, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey @Canadian Owl Maybe the solution to the photos not being perfect isn't to just take them down, especially since the photo of Eden would definitely still be something that is acceptable under fair use (just as Tyler Clementi's pfp was considered to be). rude rude Radiantgoose420 (talk) 03:41, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree, however it was uploaded as a non-free file under fair use. This file will have to be deleted and reuploaded as a non-free file. This makes it seem that the photo was in the public domain or under a certain license. Canadian Owl (talk) 03:43, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

No bad intentions btw, as a non-binary person Canadian Owl (talk) 03:43, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Dont take it down if you're not going to reupload it? Radiantgoose420 (talk) 05:17, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

@Radiantgoose420 Hi there -- it looks like the photo is back with a Fair Use explanation. Wikipedia has to be careful with image use because even if a lot of copyright holders are probably chill, sometimes there might come a copyright holder who is seriously pissed off and then Wikipedia could be in legal trouble. RexSueciae (talk) 11:28, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I don’t think that would matter, just who took the photo Canadian Owl (talk) 03:45, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

New editors, thank you.

I just wanted to put this here as a way to thank all of the new editors who are coming here from social media. I understand the desire to add all sorts of things about edens life that can’t be verified by RS and I greatly respect you for generally respecting RS and NPOV. To be entirely honest when I first starting reading I was afraid it would need a significant rework, but was pleasantly surprised. I also want to give a huge props to @RexSueciae (not a new editor) for providing an (imo) good article worthy base. Googleguy007 (talk) 18:23, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Surname?

Eden's Twitter display name was "Eden Knight," but is there any evidence she was using that as a surname and not a title or nickname? I'm asking because this article repeatedly refers to her mononymously as "Knight" even though her surname would probably be "Al-Shathri." (At least I think so? I'm not entirely familiar with how Arabic family names work.) Maivea (talk) 20:36, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes. We do know that this is the name she pretty much exclusively referred to herself by. All of her known accounts use Knight as a surname where relevant, and as far as I can tell she was disconnected from the Al-Shathri family. I would therefore consider her legal surname to be as much of a deadname as her legal first name. UnapolMaker (talk) 21:33, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree that the article shouldn't use her family's surname for her, what I was asking was whether "Knight" was being used as a substitute surname, in which case we can use it alone, or whether it was being used as a display name or part of her first name, in which case we might be better off calling her "Eden Knight" for the whole article instead of just "Knight." Maivea (talk) 22:13, 19 March 2023 (UTC)