Talk:Table of keyboard shortcuts

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Used multiple times in navigation[edit]

Win + R is on there twice, I don't want to mess with the chart basically because I'm certain I will mess it up. For someone who does know what they're dong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:19, 22 April 2011 (UTC)


I created this page as it presents a better layout and comparison between different desktop environments than List of common keyboard shortcuts. Most of it is adapted from the spreadsheet at

I think having the two separate pages is suboptimal, for the usual reasons. I think we should pick a presentation format and use it. I prefer the format of Table of keyboard shortcuts page. What do others think? --DragonHawk 01:24, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

"Moves keyboard focus to next/previous control"[edit]

So in web browsers this would be, move the cursor focus to the next form field/link, right? Well Tab/Shift+Tab (forward/back) do this in Windows, but not in GNOME as specified. I have no idea how to tab backwards in GNOME, it's driving me insane. 04:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Shift+Tab has worked in GNOME for many years now. Perhaps it didn't back in 2006 for this person, though… — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:59, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Possible shortcuts[edit]

I recently discovered that Alt+Esc on WinXP sends the current window to the back (thus effectively cyclicly switching to the next window.) Should this be added to the table?--EnderA 07:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


Shift-Del was removed by Tytrox as an alternative to ctrl+x

'(shift+del permanently deletes the file from memory bypassing recycle bin (on here it was listed as an alternative to ctrl+x "cut file to memory")'

while this is true for deleting files in windows, the action for this key states "Cut the selected area and store it in the clipboard"; it works the same as ctrl-x when editing text, images etc..

I have re-added Shift-Del, a small note/warning about files could be added, although i don't see this as dangerous since Windows will ask confirmation anyway before performing this action Skullers 17:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

"the action for this key states "Cut the selected area and store it in the clipboard"; it works the same as ctrl-x when editing text, images etc.." show me where on Windows that this is so, specifically where it states the description of the action. Tytrox 14:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

sry i meant that it's only different in the case of files, while the description in the table on this page says area, which is correct (in most cases same as ctrl-x). Skullers 04:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Table of Microsoft Office keyboard Shortcuts for BOTH windows and Mac! Don't forget laptop derrivations![edit]

this would be useful. Don't forget Fn key for macbook pros. Thanks.

Fn +F6 changes between slide, notes, and outline in powerpoint. what is it to get to full screen in powerpoint on a mac? in windows it is F5 i think. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 03:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

"symbol shortcuts"[edit]

The section about "symbol shortcuts" is confusing. It does not mention what OS it works with, and it is badly written. Unless someone improves it, I will remove it. Claesh1

I have now removed the symbols shortcuts section Claesh1

Request for shortcuts for text-editing[edit]

would like to request someone add a table of shortcuts for text editing. For examp, in Mac applications (OS X, Cocoa API) that support text editing, usually support the minimal set of emacs conventions. e.g. Ctrl-f to move forward. Besides these set, Mac support some standard itself. e.g. opt-arrow to jump by word. opt-shift-arrow to jump by word while selecting. Xah Lee 10:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Mac OS menu key shortcuts[edit]

The F10 key in Mac OS X gives keyboard focus to the menu bar where you can arrow around to the menus. I'd add it to the table but wtf that markup is unreadable —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:57, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

No References[edit]

I apreciate that under the "See Also" Section, there is a list of some websites containing keyboard shortcuts, but I feel that references should be added to the article to verify that the shortcuts listed are correct, as I'm sure many people who read the article won't know if the data is correct.

The only problem that I can see with doing this is that pages would probably have to be found that list more than one keyboard shortcut, otherwise the reference section may become longer than the article itself! However I'm sure that this would be feasible to overcome if someone had the time and patience to find some good references.

On another minor note the "See Also" section contains external links, often in Wikipedia articles these are listed under "External Links", not "See Also".

Unless someone objects I feel that the above changes should be made. --Dave (talk) 23:06, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I added some references (& removed a verification for being false) & put a good deal of good lists of shortcuts for Gnome & browsers for Linux. I hope that helps some. If anybody uses X or Windows, then I would suggest that the browsers' pages for shorcuts be found and added by that person. Gatmaster (talk) 02:06, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Ctrl + Backspace / Ctrl + Del[edit]

They delete whole words (or, more precisely, until the next word beginning to the left/right) under WinXP, maybe elsewhere, too? Unfortunately it is not consistently available across applications/text field types; but in most/the important ones. Though it is not all generally available, I suggest adding it, as it is a total killer feature to me - I use it all the time (Ctrl + Backspace).

At least in one application, Ctrl+Del deletes not only until the next word beginning to the right, but until the end of the line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EdiTor (talkcontribs) 21:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Warning header[edit]

This page is marked with a warning header "This article or section contains instructions, advice, or how-to content. The purpose of Wikipedia is to present facts, not to teach subject matter...." I recommend that this warning header should be removed.

The article presents facts, and in a pretty cut-and-dry format. The facts in this case are that certain keyboard combinations on certain systems produce certain behaviors. The table layout is, in this perspective, simply an (attempt at) an exhaustive list of examples.

Nowhere does it explicitly instruct people how to use keyboard shortcuts. Some how-to instruction is of course implicit in the subject matter, but so would it be in a discussion of Library of Congress subject headings, for example. And when you parse the disclaimer, presenting facts IS a form of teaching subject matter. But this isn't a step-by-step, it doesn't extort the values of keyboard shortcuts, it doesn't recommend their use -- it just lists keyboard shortcuts.

I came here looking for facts, and found them. The fact I searched for was "which keyboard combination on a certain system results in a particular behavior?" I found it here.

Remove the banner, and let this article stand as is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:29, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I perfectly agree. I've removed the header. Dragice (talk) 22:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

| I disagree. The page contains operating system documentation. Also OSs are changing so fast, i tried a few of the mac os ones and half of them didn't work. I suggest to bring the header back in. Kritzikratzi (talk) 19:17, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

OS vs application[edit]

Is it true that *all* text editors and web browsers under the various operating systems use the same shortcut keys? The shortcut keys for text editing and formatting and web browsers would seem to me to be more application-specific, or at least I'd expect notes saying "well, firefox uses this shortcut, while IE uses this other one" or "OpenOffice uses this shortcut, while MSOffice uses this other one". Does anyone have insight about this? Petronivs (talk) 16:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Split article by OS[edit]

I don’t really see the point of explaining the function of certain keys in DIFFERENT operating systems. No one but an obsessive wants to know what the ALT key does across different OS. People want to know what they can do with the keys in THEIR OS. So, if there was ever a good reason to split an article, here is one. Keyboard shortcuts for Windows is what I’m interested in. I don’t care what Mac users do. They don’t care what I do. What do you think? Myles325a (talk) 14:13, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


And Ctrl+Alt+Left And Ctrl+Alt+Right And to set it to normal Ctrl+Alt+Up —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:21, 29 March 2009 (UTC)


Ctrl+Alt+Backspace is one of the most commonly used shortcuts for Linux -- it restarts the window manager. For those of you who aren't that used to it, it's like a reset button, except that it doesn't touch the (usually still stable) lower level system. (talk) 22:06, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Ctrl+Alt+^ or v or > or ,< changes the screen orientation. on Windows XP, for desktop, it doesn't work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:56, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

In newer releases of Ubuntu/Ubuntu derivatives (not sure with other distros), Alt-PrintScn-K is used instead, although Ctrl-Alt-Backspace can be configured to have the same function.Dalcde (talk) 01:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

"User Interface Shortcuts"[edit]

I wouldn't include that section at all. 'Compiz' has nothing to do with it. That only switches UIs by configuration. ctl-alt-f1 through ctl-alt f8 by default change between 8 virtual consoles. 1-6 are empty, 7 is the default GUI, and 8 is the startup log. At least, by default, on Ubuntu. I would say that if someone needs the capability, they both won't look here, and will know far more about it than this says. Zebediah49 (talk) 22:23, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

This doesnt work either... -nicole lynn johnson is a weirdo —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:59, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Question re: comparisons[edit]

I guess I might be the odd person out here, but I STILL don't understand the rationale for having comparisons BETWEEN the OS's. What could a reader possibly gain from this? One OS has Del/Backspace, another uses Shift/Space. So what the heck, hey? Any reader of this wants to know what to use in his / her OWN OS, and what the programmer chose in the other OSs is completely irrelevant. It would be a good idea to have separate articles on ALL the shortcuts, with a page on EACH OS. That would make it a lot easier on everyone, and we would lose nothing at all, as any comparison between OS's is completely otiose. What say you? Myles325a (talk) 04:24, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, original creator of this article speaking here. I think there are very good reasons to list similar actions in different operating systems side-by-side. Many people are using more than one OS, such as one at work and another at home. The current disposition will make it easier to get learn and get to know differences. Also, if they were separate articles, they would take different directions and not be as useful. Claesh1 (talk)
There's already been a request to delete this article because it's too close to being an instruction manual. Having a comparison between the OSs moves it closer to not being an instruction manual. However the article is still looking very much like instructions, what it needs is an expanded discussion of the subject. I still tend to think that it should be transwikied, but I'm not going to reopen that course of action since that's already occurred. (talk) 00:26, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Move window to left/right/up/down workspace on Ubuntu 9.10[edit]

On my Ubuntu 9.10 the standard shortcuts for "Move window to left/right/up/down workspace" are "Shift+Ctrl+Alt+left-/right-/up-/down-arrow" rather than just "Shift+Alt+left-/..."

Does not work for windows 7 since Command + # pulls up a program. Kthx update please.-- (talk) 15:27, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Gnome search function commented-out? (Activities Overview confusion?)[edit]

Why is this commented-out on the “Search Dialog” row of the first table? Was someone confused about how this works? Of course, it's not a dialog box…

Perhaps there is some reason for not listing it?

In Gnome, pressing the Activity key (Windows logo / Super / whatever) brings up the Activities Overview, which shows all open windows on the current (virtual) desktop; the Dash (analogous to the Windows Taskbar or the Apple Dock); the Notification area; and also puts the cursor into the Search box. The Search box searches for installed applications, documents/files, contacts, and so forth.

So, yes, that one key (or mouse-corner-bump) does an awful lot of things, but “searching for files, programs, and people” is probably the main one.

EG: — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:15, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Shift+F3 on Windows XP[edit]

The upper/lower case shortcut under [1] does not work on Windows XP to change upper/lower case. I was hoping there was a shortcut for this to save me some time in something that I'm working on but this turned out to not work. Hopefully someone can get this clarified within the article so others aren't disappointed. Zeroality (talk) 10:43, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Didn't work for me either (Vista) - discovered however, that it works just fine if you're in MS Office 2007. May be true of other versions as well?
-- Joren (talk) 08:13, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Alternative non Table Display[edit]

I notice there has been some discussion already about display format. And as a general subject maybe this is the wrong place to start such a discussion, however I will continue with a quick comment, and may try to read up more about this at some later date.

Some of the table does not display optimally on my set-up, with for instance table content overlapping into other columns. I doubt any such long multiple table page could be designed for optimal display in all circumstances.

Is there an alternative simple text display also available ? ( and if so, or if such is considered, how would any edits be synchronised between the versions, if it were manually that creates a lot of work and a lot of room for errors)

I realise of course that a lot of this depends on a users equipment. I am using Windows XP on a low resolution small screen and viewing with FireFox. Even if myself or someone modified a page, a table, or a row/column to display ok in my system many others would then complain it does not display on: a small screen pda, a phone or whatever; whereas other users may then complain tables are now wasting valuable screen space by being necessarily low resolution.

No doubt some knowledgeable user will be able to point to other links where this subject is discussed, or even a topic above that I failed to read whilst making this hasty comment.

Thanks to all who have already contributed.

JohnH99 (talk) 09:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

KDE, GNOME, emacs[edit]

What is your opinion on the inclusion of columns for KDE, GNOME, and emacs? I am of the opinion that the comparison table is getting a bit cluttered. What are your thoughts? Can/should one of these columns be removed?

Kind regards, PolarYukon (talk) 08:44, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

If Windows and OS X are there, I see no reason for KDE and GNOME not to be. The presence of emacs slightly concerns me, being reminded of an old joke that it's so feature rich it's practically an "operating system". A subtle troll, perhaps? --Gnathan87 (talk) 08:33, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
I agree with Gnathan87 - KDE and GNOME should stay but emacs should go. It might also be possible to merge KDE and GNOME into one column as they are mostly quite similar, although the cells where they are different would have to indicate this so would become more cluttered. Starofale (talk) 17:30, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
I merged KDE and GNOME for the tables where it made sense. (The window management tables were quite different so I left those unmerged.) If anyone wants to delete the emacs column, feel free ;-) --David-Sarah Hopwood ⚥ (talk) 23:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
I believe that Emacs should stay since people configure their O.S. to support those styles of shortcuts. Removing KDE & Gnome would be retarded. From that perspective it makes since to me. Something might need to be done about the significant change from Gnome 2- to Gnome 3+. Should there be two separate columns further obfuscating which column is which, or should a separate article be made for previous versionings of plausibly all the O.S.? That would be a way in which only the current 5 styles of shortcuts would be included in this page. Gatmaster (talk) 23:27, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

POSIX Unix Shell[edit]

What exactly qualifies as a POSIX Unix Shell? Also, I have never heard of Esc+K and Esc+J to walk backward and forward through history.

PS Most shells have Ctrl+U to clear line or clear left of cursor.

Emacs but not vim?[edit]

I think it's a pretty questionable choice to include emacs, especially instead of vim. Look at the statistics from Debian's Popularity Contest to see why I think that:

If someone can show me some data that suggest emacs is more widely used than vim, I'll gladly let it go. However, I think including a text editor here is arbitrary anyway, since managing "windows" (meaning individual applications) in the traditional sense isn't an editor's job. It would make more sense to me to include a terminal multiplexor like screen or tmux as opposed to an editor. Attys (talk) 17:55, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Bash uses GNU readline for line-editing.
Readline key bindings are taken from Emacs by default, but it is possible to use a different set of keybindings, ie vim[2]
Svnpenn (talk) 06:09, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I think that the choice has to do with using a set of shortcuts. I've never heard of anybody configuring his system to use vim-like shortcuts. Gatmaster (talk) 23:53, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


On Windows I found a variation of Ctrl-v for paste useful: Ctrl-Shift-v inserts without format, useful for example from Word to Blog text. Whereas I don’t understand your Ctrl-Alt-v as "Paste Special". Perhaps you know precisely what it does, and what Ctrl-Shift-v. ― Incidentally you might mention in a footnote to Ctrl-v why v was chosen for paste: It’s the next character to c on the keyboard, and it happens to look like a pencilled V to insert missing text. — Fritz Jörn (talk) 07:08, 24 September 2012 (UTC)


What's the difference between "Bookmarks menu" and "Manage bookmarks"? Can someone merge them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:55, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Close the focused window - shift alt f4 ?[edit]

Why is for "Close the focused window" for Windows listed shift-alt-f4, when the actual shortcut is alt-f4 for decades (since Windows 3.0 at least)? Also listed as such here: (and shift-alt-f4 is not mentioned) --Xerces8 (talk) 00:30, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I fixed the entry in the article. --Xerces8 (talk) 12:26, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

IBM Common User Access[edit]

Doesn't it worth to had IBM Common User Access's shortcuts to the Comparison? -- (talk) 06:10, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Chromebook shortcuts would be helpful[edit]

Chromebook shortcuts would be helpful, has this been discussed somewhere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsterbal (talkcontribs) 17:30, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Template:Key press[edit]

Recent edits have taken the article past the 2MB template argument expansion size limit (search for "templateargumentsize" in the HTML source to see that). A symptom is that there are many occurrences of "Template:Key press" in the article, that is, the template is not being expanded. That looks tricky to fix but I thought I'd mention it (and ping Vwanweb). One fix would be to write a module to replace the template, but I'm a bit busy for that, and a module may not be welcomed by all. By the way, a recent edit broke "program": search for "pro<small>or</small>gram" in the wikitext. Johnuniq (talk) 04:36, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Fixed the "pro<small>or</small>gram" edit. --ElLutzo (talk) 19:47, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
No fix in months - suggest splitting article to workaround:

Widefox; talk 19:02, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

PRO: The "Template:Key press" issue on this huge article page is quite annoying. The split would fix the issue and reduce the size of the article page to a decent degree. --ElLutzo (talk) 13:18, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

If you need to pare down the size, I suggest splitting the table by operating system. More user-friendly. I'm representing me and the other unsupersophisticated users. We want to see all of the codes at on the same page. I'm a Windows user. I don't care what the key combination is on Mac OS, etc. How about these splits instead?

As the table is today, there are many hyperlinks to "Template:Key press/code" that go nowhere meaningful. I looked at "Template:Key press" and that shows the symbols and I understand that. But I'm a novice to the coding you're talking about and to me it looks like the table is unfinished. Batya7 (talk) 02:45, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

This was an issue previously, and the 27 February 2012 fix was use {{key press/core}} directly, to prevent listing in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded.
Despite what Template:Key press/core says, "cutting out the middle man" makes the expanded template code much less bulky (I think this is the kind of thing a Lua module could do much more efficiently).
Comparing the version before that fix, it now has post-expand include size = 2061068/2097152 bytes (just under the limit), while the fixed version has post-expand include size = 1319466/2097152 bytes.
The problem recurred here when someone reversed that fix, and replaced {{key press/core}} with {{key press}}. It's fine to use the latter occasionally on a page, but not on a page like this. – wbm1058 (talk) 22:14, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
I submitted a request at Wikipedia:Lua/To do. wbm1058 (talk) 01:15, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────The problem might be that the output is simply too big. The following shows two samples with the number of bytes generated and the bytes that are generated (from Special:ExpandTemplates).

  • {{key press|Alt}}Alt (663 bytes)
<kbd class="keyboard-key nowrap" style="border: 1px solid #aaa; -moz-border-radius: 0.2em; -webkit-border-radius: 0.2em; border-radius: 0.2em; -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1); box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1); background-color: #f9f9f9; background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(top, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); background-image: -o-linear-gradient(top, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); background-image: linear-gradient(to bottom, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); padding: 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.85em;">Alt</kbd>
  • {{key press|Alt|f}}Alt+f (1325 bytes)
<kbd class="keyboard-key nowrap" style="border: 1px solid #aaa; -moz-border-radius: 0.2em; -webkit-border-radius: 0.2em; border-radius: 0.2em; -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1); box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1); background-color: #f9f9f9; background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(top, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); background-image: -o-linear-gradient(top, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); background-image: linear-gradient(to bottom, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); padding: 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.85em;">Alt</kbd>+<kbd class="keyboard-key nowrap" style="border: 1px solid #aaa; -moz-border-radius: 0.2em; -webkit-border-radius: 0.2em; border-radius: 0.2em; -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1); box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1); background-color: #f9f9f9; background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(top, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); background-image: -o-linear-gradient(top, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); background-image: linear-gradient(to bottom, #eee, #f9f9f9, #eee); padding: 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: inherit; font-size: 0.85em;">f</kbd>

There are 1164 {{key press}} or {{key press/core}} templates in the article. If the total required output is over 2MB the problem will occur regardless of whether a template or a module does the work. If there is no way to drastically simplify the generated output (to halve its size), the only alternative is to split the article. Johnuniq (talk) 05:12, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

New module[edit]

I created Module:Key after realizing that the old template has to copy quite a lot of stuff, which increases the post-expand include size. The module is used like this:

  • {{#invoke:key|press|Alt|F10}}Alt+F10
  • {{#invoke:key|press|A|B|C|D|E|F|G|H|I|J|K|L|M|N|O|P|Q|R|S|T|U|V|W|X|Y|Z}}A+B+C+D+E+F+G+H+I+J+K+L+M+N+O+P+Q+R+S+T+U+V+W+X+Y+Z

The second example shows there is no limit to the number of chained characters. However, there must be no missing parameters ({{#invoke:key|press|A|B||D}} would fail).

The module has removed the expansion errors. The following lines are from the NewPP report in the html source of the article. The first line was the old article using the old template, while the second line is the article after switching it to use the module.

Post‐expand include size: 2097152/2097152 bytes
Post‐expand include size: 1048059/2097152 bytes

I will update {{key press}} to use the module. However, using the template will double the post-expand incude size because the module gets the result, and the template passes the result to the wikitext—the result is processed twice. Johnuniq (talk) 04:07, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

👍👍👍 --ElLutzo (talk) 13:14, 13 April 2017 (UTC)


In some of the Mac columns appears "MBR". What is it? The only thing I can think of is 'Master Boot Record', but I doubt that term is intended. Should it be explained? MCEmperor (talk) 10:55, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

I believe that may refer to the MacBook (Retina) keyboard. wbm1058 (talk) 22:16, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

URL Shortcuts (Adds www. + .com)[edit]

I'm strictly a Chrome user, but isn't the shortcut for this crtl+enter? I'm assuming someone knows more than I do or I would just make the edit. Mcanadian (talk) 19:42, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Stupid Shortcut[edit]

What's the keyboard shortcut that somehow I accidentally press to navigate to a different page, erasing all the text I was typing into a form. And how do you turn the damned thing off so I don't keep navigating away from the page I just typed 10 minutes worth of text into only to lose it?