Talk:This War Is Ours
|WikiProject Albums||(Rated C-class, Low-importance)|
It seems metal/metalcore to me, they were post hardcore last album.
Its hard to believe. But with the guitar solo's, intro's, etc.
All that stuff they didn't have last album. Shouldn't they be metal? Seems like it to me.
I'm sorry but I don't think you know what Metal is. This is definitely closer to a Rock album. Definitely a Hard Rock album. Haven't heard the whole thing yet, but I'm leaving it to hope to say that this still has some Post-Hardcore left in it.EDIT: Ok, so I'm kinda thinking Metal on this one now that I've listened to it. But it's wierd, because it sounds like a Metal/Hard Rock album with breakdowns, not like how Metalcore is usually done. But I suppose that makes this album Metalcore. So there you go. But still, we need a source, not just OR. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 06:01, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
The song "This War Is Ours" is the primary (and possibly only) example of metalcore in the album, while even the second or third "heaviest" songs could only be considered post-hardcore. Above all else, the songs demonstrate characteristics of alternative rock. Screamed vocals are few and far between. I'm restoring the infobox to the most appropriate genres: Post-hardcore, alternative rock --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk)
The album is more rock than metal
It hasn't been proven that Chris Wilson did the drums, so until you guys find proof that he did the drums, stop putting his name there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 15:49, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
This War Is Ours Re-Release/Deluxe Edition move?
Ok so, on the Escape The Fate page, a separate page for the Deluxe Edition Re-release is added. I think it should be moved/merged with This War Is Ours' album page under a section "Re-release EP" or something to that extent, and add the details is they progress, as of now it'd be just the album art, statistics or it like genre and stuff, and that Bad Blood as an apparent song on it. I couldn't move it myself.. so.. just thoughts and opinions, anyone? .-. ~Accomplish nothing, Overcome none, Die without, Keep it coming, I'm all that and more. ... Or less~ 07:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by DXSwanton (talk • contribs)
Bad Blood Fourth Single?
The Escape the Fate Fan Site & Myspace of the band, says, Bad Blood New Single Of Deluxe Special Edition... ?? Well, confirming this info. Need more reference.
Hey why do you keep reverting it. If you want your metalcore to count then link to the overview page and not the credits. Besides on your source it specifically says that the "first" track is metalcore not the whole album. Besides CHECK UNDER THE ALBUM COVER it says, And I quote the following;
- RELEASE DATE
- Alternative/Indie Rock
- Alternative Pop/Rock
- Heavy Metal
And these are actually listed under the genre section and metalcore is not. "They" describe the "opening" track as metalcore. One track does not define an album. But seriously dude if you want metalcore to count then you "must" add all genre's listed on the source and not just "one". Is it your favorite, do you hate the others. You just cant ignore them like they dont exist. One Source, many genres. Dont be a whiner BlackDragon 02:49, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
- That is the genre cloud or the genre tags.
They are reliable.They are not reliable. That precedent has been set discussed multiple times: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 16#Allmusic.com continued was the first, but search the archives for allmusic and genre and you'll see. The prose are considered reliable though. Those prose read, in part, "title track balances metalcore toughness with urgent melodies that sound like". That's what was discussed above as well. I'm sorry that I didn't make the location of the prose and this consensus decision completely clear earlier. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:05, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
So you say that they are reliable. Then can I add them back. Because the prose says the title track, not the whole thing. I've heard it and for sure the whole album isn't. It doesnt have near as much screaming as the first. And metalcore screams the verses and sings the chorus. So the whole thing isnt metalcore. It is definitely post-hardcore with some hard rock and metal mixed in. I wouldn't say screamo though because that is all screams and this isnt but it does have some. BlackDragon 01:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm sorry. I should have written that they are not reliable. The links clarify that. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:00, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
How come exactly. Why is one part of the source reliable and the other not? It makes no since. So is this Tom Forget reliable, because he wrote the prose. The site wrote the infobox. Either all should be added or none. BlackDragon 20:53, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
- Please read the discussions as to why the genre tags or genre cloud is not reliable at the RS noticeboard. From what I understand, they're not done on a per-album basis and they're not necessarily done by an editor. There may be an algorithm that looks for certain terms and includes them.
- Whether the author is or isn't reliable isn't up to me to decide but its' up to AllMusic to decide. If you don't like the source and would like to question the review, feel free to take it to the reliable sources noticeboard. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:05, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
- Let me make this perfectly clear: the things to the left side on AllMusic reviews and artist pages are called a genre cloud or genre tags. They are not reliable. So edit's like this are wrong. Do not ever do that again. You're either pretending not to understand or you shouldn't be editing on Wikipedia. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:26, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
But I like too. So then explain it to me. How come the genre tags for the Album arent reliable but some random guys review is. I have checked the album, only one or two some even have some metalcore. This is most definitely not a metalcore albums, maybe some metalcore songs, but for real its not a metalcore "album". You have yet to say why the genre "cloud" for an album isnt reliable yet Tom Forgets review is? I am confused. Besides past discussion lead to it being part metalcore, with post-hardcore and hard rock in it to. And That is exactly what the source states too. You cant add part of one source and not the rest. Dont you get that. BlackDragon 01:41, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Amazon also tags it under Post-Hardcore http://www.amazon.com/This-War-Ours-Escape-Fate/dp/B001EOQU8W Why are you so ignorant to not add all of the appropriate genres. The sources blatantly state them yet you ignore them. By the way when you posted a tag on my page saying "dont war even if you think you are right", you're warring back when you undo my posts, which again are sourced and your claim is not. BlackDragon 01:48, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm sorry. I can't explain it to you any better than I have. The genres are not RSes. If you want to discuss that further, take it to [:Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard]]. Amazon's genres are also not reliable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:35, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Dont move this to the page, this is a message for you not the album. So you said that and I quote "its not a reliable source". So you said its not reliable at ALL that means metalcore isnt sourced either reliably. If we add metalcore then we must add all others listed on the source. Its the same source, they are equally reliable. Why is only one part of the source more reliable and the rest not. I dont get it, you havent said why? Just in your words why is that. And if you say Allmusic is not reliable all together, then you must remove metalcore as well and not just the others. Dont you think that this seems to fair. And why isnt amazon reliable. Its a major store and they even usually have release dates, on time I might add, before the band/movie/game announces it. So it seems reliable to me.
This review also says it. And if your review by Tom is reliable then so is the review by http://www.hellhoundmusic.com/album-review-escape-the-fate-ungrateful/ :
"In this release, the band bridges the gap, artistically, between their more melodic, post-hardcore sound on This War is Ours and the more mainstream rock radio-friendly sound heard on their 2010 self-titled album."
So here is more sources again for you. I can add them to the page later but again why is one genre from the same source reliable and the rest not. Please answer my question
BlackDragon 23:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm sorry that I have not been able to explain that the cloud, the list of genres on the left side, are not reliable. Prose written by anyone approved by AllMusic are generally considered reliable.
- hellhoundmusic.com does not meet Wikipedia's standards for reliable sources. It appears that anyone can become a "staff writer" http://www.hellhoundmusic.com/become-a-staff-writer/ . The reviewer http://www.hellhoundmusic.com/author/matthhm/ has written two reviews so far. While it's verifiable, it's not reliable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:53, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Ok but the prose states on the genre of the first rack isnt that correct. It shouldn't take presence for the entire album. But with what you said: "anyone approved by AllMusic are generally considered reliable". I bring two issues; first the "generally" and second the issue on why the cloud is not reliable. If anyone approved is reliable enough to count then who puts the genres on the listed, Hellboundmusic??? No Allmusic does. So with that in mind so one would of have to of been approved for them to put the list on the page, right? So for all we know this Tom guy could have added both, I mean the prose isnt even a full paragraph really. And it only dictates the first part. The list would reflect the album as a whole. So I honestly dont see why the prose written by an approved member is okay but the list written by one is not. I dont get it, it makes no sense. Hellbound was just a source to back up that the album isnt all metalcore; even the opening sentence sates "This album departed from the band's earlier emo, darker sound, to a more hard rock, mainstream sound with less screamed vocals.". Less screamed vocals... That is not metalcore. But like I said I have the album and its not all metalcore. Yes it has some but not the whole album by far. Not even all of the songs have scream vocals and false-chords in them. So it cant be just that one genre, most albums aren't.
And the first part was simply for you. It did not need to be moved as I already posted it on here to begin with. I am aloud to message just you right??? BlackDragon 21:38, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
This past discussion also agreed that it is not a metalcore album:
"The song "This War Is Ours" is the primary (and possibly only) example of metalcore in the album, while even the second or third "heaviest" songs could only be considered post-hardcore. Above all else, the songs demonstrate characteristics of alternative rock. Screamed vocals are few and far between. I'm restoring the infobox to the most appropriate genres: Post-hardcore, alternative rock --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk)"
You said look at old ones and I did. It must have been changed down the line somewhere but was originally not just listing metalcore as the only genre. BlackDragon 21:38, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Hey honestly though "We Won't Back Down" isnt even metalcore as it has absolutely NO screams at all, as is the same with most songs on the album. Sometimes common sense beats what we have. BlackDragon 21:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
- If you want to discuss AllMusic and what is and isn't considered reliable, you might want to discuss it at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard since I don't know why these things are they way they are.
- I can't support or deny that your opinions on the album's genres are correct. All I can do is indicate that what is needed is reliable sources and to avoid genre warring. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:06, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
That is all you say after all i wrote. You can express your opinion. All you did was tell me to make a page and post stuff their and that you cant say anything. If one guy from Allmusic is reliable then I see no reason at all to why another from the site isnt. You keep saying its not. How??? If you dont know then its fine to add. Like I said past discussion agreed that its not metalcore and is multiple genres. If one source is reliable then all stuff from the site is reliable. I know for sure that it is in fact reliable because it is all of those genres. the site is reliable, you said that. They wouldn't put unreliable things on there site then. So its fine. If the link is reliable, then all of the genres on it are reliable period. That is all there is to it. BlackDragon 02:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
- I don't know why you continue add unreliable source material. I removed it again. I am taking this (and your behaviour) up at the location I keep telling you to go to. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:55, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
- I have started a discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#AllMusic review and This War Is Ours. You may find more help there. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:05, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Haha, Walter Görlitz is ruining everything about Escape the Fate in Wikipedia, you should be aware that you have so many haters dude!! Escape the Fate page, especially Ungrateful album page has never been up-to-date because of you. Zuagery (talk) 23:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC + 7)
- When Escape the Fate fans learn to provide WP:RSes you can stop ruining Wikipedia. Feel free to write whatever you want on fan sites and blogs. I'll keep appropriate rules here on Wikipedia especially since editors like you, who have been blocked for your edits on Escape the Fate articles, exist. Cheers. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:49, 18 May 2013 (UTC)