Talk:Tornike

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John Thornik[edit]

According to most encyclopedoas and scholarly texts on Byzantium, Tornikios was the family name of John Thornik. That is mentioned for example in the citation provided by Cplakidas as well as the following texts:

Morris, R. (2002), Monks and Laymen in Byzantium, 843-1118, Cambridge University Press, pp. 85–6, ISBN 0-521-26558-4
Dobson, R. B.; Vauchez, A.; Lapidge, M. (2000), Encyclopedia of the Middle Ages, Volume 2, Routledge, ISBN 1579582826

It is easy to find references to the same content in other sources. The etymology can likewise be found in footnotes of scholarly texts on Byzantium. Mathsci (talk) 12:17, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As I already stated, this is not an article about a surname, but name Tornike. And as I already stated on many occasions, you have to give a specific page of a specific book that explicitly explains the etymology of name Tornike. So far I have seen no such thing.--Andriabenia (talk) 12:21, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You have broken 3RR on this article and have been reported. At no stage have you used an WP:RS. You have stated your presonal opinion which is contradicted by the scholarly sources above. Mathsci (talk) 12:25, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You have absolutely no sources. Listing books without providing a specific page, as you do on Europe page, is not acceptable. Titles and names of authors mean nothing if there is no explicit explanation in these respetive books. It is your duty to be as specific as possible. It is not my responsibility to read the entire book to verify the veracity of your claims.--Andriabenia (talk) 12:29, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This [1] is a reliable source; and it is fairly easy to find the same content in footnotes on T'ornik is multiple scholarly texts on Byzantium. Regardless of the content issue, making four reverts within a period of 24 hours usually results in a block. Since you have already had a previous 48 block for edit warring, it is also likely that your second block will be longer. Mathsci (talk) 12:34, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If it is so easy to " find the same content in footnotes on T'ornik", why won't you provide it? Why should we have to go searching for something you are trying to prove? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andriabenia (talk • contribs) 12:38, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. nevermind, I was not aware that the text was expanding. its not entirely clear with the page you linked.--Andriabenia (talk) 12:42, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A simple search on Tornikios and Byzantium will help you find the footnotes. Calling other editors "blind" when you cannot read a source properly is not the way to edit wikipedia. Mathsci (talk) 12:55, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You deliberately provided the wrong link that did not have the entire text. Secondly, it is not our duty to do a "simple search" to prove point you're trying to make.--Andriabenia (talk) 12:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see that. I used the link added by Cplakidas. It is evidently a summary with a "GO TO ENTRY" button that you can easily click on. Much earlier I had told Cplakidas about this reference on his talk page adding explicit links to the full entry in English and in Greek (since he is Greek). [2] I would advise you to tone down your language. Mathsci (talk) 13:08, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All this discussion is such a nonsense. One thing is to talk about a first name and another thing - to talk about a family name. The referred article was talking about a noble surname and yet, is not convincing about the origins of the family - the author relates John Tornike to Tornikios family when the person - John Tornike mentioned in the article is one person with two proper names - Tornike is a given name and John a spiritual one and his surname was ERISTAVI. So how all of these makes sense in that article and how can it be a reliable source? One in One thing is for sure - name one historical or modern day Armenian with the name that is close to Tornike.