Talk:Toxandria

Although this article states that ancient 'Toxandria' was situated in Belgiuk and France between the Meuse and Schelt rivers, I always thought Toxandria (also 'Taxandria') was a region on the Dutch-Belgian borders, mainly in the modern Dutch province of North-Brabant and the Belgian province of Limburg; thus being directly south of the Rhine. This view is supported by both the Dutch and German Wikipedias (though not by the Swedish one, which seems to state the same as the English one). Can anyone clarify the view of this article? Otherwise I will change it in the time to come. Thomas Antonius 16:46, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I'm myself from the Campine (Kempen in Dutch). The Campine is an area in Brabant that can be found in the Belgium province of Antwerp, Limburg and the most northern of the province of Flemish Brabant, and in the south of the Dutch province North Brabant (where I live). Toxandria (sometimes also Taxandria) is here used as an old name for the Campine! Pmaas 09:52, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Toxandria (Taxandria)

To those who doubt of the geographical location of Toxandria, please be informed about the following key-factors. Firstly, in early medieval times there were many migrations of people from the East to the West and from the West to the Northeast of Europe, and backward. Secondly, the "first" region to be called Toxandria is the one described in the article. Thirdly, in medieval times the orientation used was not our polar (North) orientation, but h the West one. Finally, the combination of the following factors: the migrations, often due to the invasions or changing climate conditions; the fact that during the migrations people tended to give the same name to towns and regions as in their originals sites; and the forgetfulness about the North/West orientations during later centuries; all contributed to the confusion about Toxandria. One must be remembered that in as much as the Kempen (Campine) region is concerned, it was mainly swampland in the early middle-ages due to the very wide Meuse and Rhine river-deltas. It is when people from the West migrated NorthEast that they founded towns in what is the "second" Toxandria (Taxandria), and replicated names of towns and rivers. A good example is the river Aa (or A), as in the word Breda (Breed-Aa). The origin of the name is the river Aa that flows through the city of Lille, north of the Scheldt, in present-day France.

Thank you very much for your explanation! But in the first English translation of Pliny the Elder's Natural History (Naturalis historia) by Philemon Holland (1601) they write: "Next to Scaldis, there inhabited the utmost borders, the Toxandri, under many names." And in the second English translation by John Bostock and H. T. Riley (1855) they write the following: "Beginning at the Scaldis, the parts beyond(6) are inhabited by the Toxandri, who are divided into various peoples with many names.""(6=)The provinces of Antwerp and North Brabant." North Brabant is the northern Dutch part, including the Dutch Kempen. Although I don't know what the translater's source was for saying that. The Latin tranlation says anyway the following: "a Scaldi incolunt [texero] Texuandri pluribus nominibus". I'm curious, what are your sources? I would like to read more on Toxandria/the Toxandri. Peter Maas 15:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Price of peace

This article baldly states that Flavius Claudius Julianus BOUGHT peace by giving land to the Salian Franks, elsewhare (see "Julian the Apostate", "Salian Franks" etc.) it states that Julian DEFEATED the Franks and forced them to accept Roman terms, including settling them in Toxandria as allies of the Romans. It sounds to me like a little editing is needed - or a least some source to back this claim of "buying off the Franks". 58.165.213.179 07:46, 26 August 2007 (UTC)Jim Jacobs.

Further to the above please see Ammianus Marcellinus "Res Gestae" Book 17 section 8 which seems to confirm that Julian defeated the Salii - remember he was contemperous to the events. 124.183.73.234 08:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)Jim Jacobs

Etymology

The following etymology looks spurious:

The name is probably derived from the Latin word Taxus (yew). The region generally corresponds with the former tribal realm of the Eburones. Eburones is thought to mean 'yew farmers' (eibe = yew / boer, bauer = farmer).

The Proto-Germanic name for the yew tree was *īwaz so I strongly doubt this etymology.--Berig (talk) 17:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I have attached a source for this idea, which is widely discussed in published articles. You have to consider that tribal names in the area are not always Germanic, even if the people might have been.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 09:47, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Merge proposal

There is very little known about the Toxandri or their region, Toxandria. Both articles therefore cover basically the same ground. Furthermore, both articles are not great. We are splitting our resources, and the attention of our readers, and if we had one article it would be better for editors and readers. My first impression is that this article about the region should disappear, because it is basically about the tribe. Wikipedia has a more complete series of articles about such tribes which this fits into.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 09:50, 27 June 2013 (UTC)