Talk:United States Army uniforms in World War II

Untitled

Please add any thoughts/comments/additions. Also, please combine this with an existing article if the topic has already been created - I could not find one when I started.

-Josh

This page is slightly too "wordy" and needs photos to demonstrate explanations.

Pinks and Greens

Hi there, This old uniform was in the news today so I came to Wikipedia to see a pic. When you search for that, you get the USAAF page and have to search again to find it. This is the page it ought to come to, but we need to add a section (we don't even have a mention now) on pinks and greens. 155.213.224.59 (talk) 15:27, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Great Inaccuracies Here

This article has extensive inaccuracies. I added sourced edits in the first section since there were many inaccuracies and there were of course no sources for that section at all.

To illustrate the point I will list the inaccuracies of the "Class B" section alone. Except for the first chapter which is now corrected the rest of the chapters are just as bad.

The A,B,C,D uniforms in the article are just totally made up. The fact A and B are modern terms is stated but there wasn't then or now a C or D in the U.S. Army. What is given does not even correspond with USMC A B C D uniforms.

1. The campaign hat could be worn with any uniform.

2. Spread Collar refers to a very wide opening for the tie. The Army shirt was not a spread collar type.

3. Rank was not worn on officer's shirt shoulder straps to "prevent snipers". Prior to 1942 the U.S. pin was worn on the right shirt collar and the branch insignia on the left with rank on the shoulder straps if the shirt was being worn as an outer garment. In 1942 this was changed so the rank was removed from the shoulder straps and the U.S. was replaced by the rank on the right collar point.

4. Enlisted personnel did not wear insignia disks on their shirts in WWII. That was a post war development.

5. Enlisted branch of service disks were not worn on the garrison "overseas" cap.

6. Enlisted service stripes were indeed authorized on service shirt sleeves.

The photo of Donald Prell, while I'm sure chosen to honor a WWII veteran shows a blue infantry cord which was not created until the Korean War era. It is also being worn with armored branch insignia which would not be authorized at any time in the U.S. Army. Although I sympathize with the desire to use a WWII vet's photo it's not an accurate WWII uniform example for the purpose of this article.

I could go on but you get the point. This is but one small section. Most of these are easily sourced in the U.S. Army WWII uniform regulations. I am willing to fix the errors but the edit will be very extensive virtually eliminating whole chapters and adding others.

Please give me feedback if you think an administrator will allow me to correct this with well sourced material or at least put in a disputed notice.

Thank you very much,

Wolfhound63

@Wtmitchell: @ClueBot NG: Wolfhound63 (talk) 22:35, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Do you have sources to support these assertions? Garuda28 (talk) 20:54, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Many sources but all you really need is Personnel: Prescribed Service Uniform AR 600-35, 1941 & 1944 and Personnel: Wearing Of The Service Uniform AR 600-40 1941 & 1944. If you look at the source list of the U.S. Army Air Force uniform article you can see what I cited. I can refute each mistake point by point as I did for chapter 2, and I will if you wish, or I can just submit the sourced article. The chapter breakdown itself is bogus which is why I deleted some, and in my view the entire article should be reworked. I would save as much as possible but it will ultimately bear little resemblance to the original if done properly. I would also add plenty of photographic evidence to illustrate. Both sets of 1941 regulations albeit without all the changes, which I have collected, are at http://usahec.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p16635coll11/id/4076 and http://www.usww2uniforms.com/bib_AR600-40_28aug41.html. The 1944 versions of each have dramatic changes that took place during the intervening years. Wolfhound63 (talk) 21:48, 5 June 2019 (UTC) @Garuda28:

Chapter U.S. Army Field Uniform ("Class C") should be eliminated. It is redundant.

This chapter is redundant since it's the same as Army Combat Uniforms. There has never been a class C uniform in the U.S. Army. the chapter addresses the Khaki uniform which is covered in Ch 1. Men's Army Service Uniforms. the last portion "Evolution of the Tropical Uniform" is completely off topic since it is mostly talking about post war developments. @Garuda28:

Topic by Wolfhound63 (talk) 02:07, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Chapter "Discontinued Pre-War Uniform Items" is mostly incorrect of redundant.

Discontinued Pre-War Uniform Items

Certain Pre-War items were discontinued due to economy measures.

The original text is in italics.

The expensive and labor-intensive fur-felt Campaign hat was replaced with either the folding cloth "Overseas Cap" for wear in the field or the Peaked cap for dress or formal duty wear.

The campaign hat existed in tandem with the others hats mentioned. It was declared limited standard in 1941, meaning procurement ended, although it was still used by some soldiers afterward.

The wool (Class B) or cotton (Class C) service shirts were only made with epaulets for officers in order to save material.

Officers had epaulets and enlisted did not from 1924 to facilitate holding the Sam Brown shoulder strap. It was not a WWII austerity measure. (Emerson 487)

Brass buttons were replaced by plastic ones. The buttons on the dress tunic were changed from the branch of service insignia to a "GI" insignia (the Army Eagle) - except for Engineer officers, who still wore the Engineer "Castle" insignia on theirs.

Brass buttons were indeed replaced by plastic during the war. Buttons on dress coats however were of universal pattern since the 19th century. From that time only the engineer branch wore branch specific button on any uniform. (I can cite any prewar Army regulation.)

In 1940 the Army Dress Blue uniform was discontinued as an austerity measure. It would not be restored until 1947. Issue of the saber to Army officers was discontinued and never restored.

In 1940 the Army Dress Blue uniform became optional for officers. It was suspended from 1943-47. (Emerson 563) Although it's also in regs.

In 1942 the M1921 Sam Browne Belt was discontinued to save leather. The Class A dress jacket replaced its separate leather waist belt with a cloth belt that was sewn-in at the back of the jacket's waist.

True but redundant, covered above. The cloth belt could in fact be sew on or not. (AR 600-35, 1944)

The black worsted "Class A" necktie was replaced by the Olive Drab (OD 3) necktie with all uniforms.

Redundant, more extensive sourced piece on neckties in chapter 1.

The officer's Peaked Cap was later redesigned to have a removable crown so it could be converted from Olive Drab ("Class A") to Khaki ("Class C") (or vice versa).

Changing the peaked cap to have interchangeable covers was actually a post war development for enlisted soldiers issue caps. Officer's winter caps were mostly sew on and only the summer cap had a removable cover. (post war change to AR 600-35, 1944)@Garuda28:

Topic by Wolfhound63 (talk) 02:08, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

References

Fabric weight

The edit summary for this edit (a revert) caught my eye and tweaked my curiosity. I googled up more info here and, since there is no post-revert need for citation of a supporting source about this in the article, I thought I would mention it here. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:28, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Interesting source. There's surprisingly little about the use of these units on Wikipedia; I was surprised to see that my edit summary wound up with a red link in it, and I can't seem to find a more appropriate article to link to in the article .with that said, I wounded if it would behoove us to change the mentions here of just ounces to ounces per square yard to make it clearer, and to somehow use the convert template to give the corresponding teams per square meter (or gsm in the textile trade). oknazevad (talk) 01:10, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

M43 trousers

Foofbun regarding your recent edit, the text now reads: The trousers were made out of the same OD 7 cotton sateen material and white cotton twill inner lining, and were equipped with neither front nor rear pockets, but a more economical large cargo pocket sewn to each side. [emphasis added] However, the next sentence plus one reads: For airborne troops, treated canvas cargo pockets were added to the trousers. Your edit creates an inconsistency in the text. Please resolve. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:39, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

• Oops! thanks for your help on this. M1943 were the dream of NCOs who didn't have to say "Get your F'n hands out of your pockets!"Foofbun (talk) 02:02, 21 February 2022 (UTC).