Talk:Uzbeks

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Totally mess article[edit]

After reading the article i came to opinion it was written by pan-Iranist or pan-aryan people who wrongly illustrated the picture. I am from Uzbekistan and ethnic Uzbek. Please note the term 'Uzbek' became in use only in 1924, before the people Uzbekistan were referred by the city he or she lives. Outside people, mainly nomads called them as 'Sart' meaning 'settled'. (however the real meaning could be 'merchant' since most people were engaged in trae). At the moment, Uzbeks combine all Turkic Karluk-speaking (even tajik-speaking) people of Uzbekistan.

The territory of modern Uzbekistan was conquerred for many times. Uzbek khan in 14 century or Uzbek Shaybanids cannot be taken as identification of Uzbek ethnic. Since the word "Uzbek" existed during Tamerlane (no link to Uzbek khan or Shaybanids) and 7-8 centuries when earlies Turkic tribes invaded. Since Shabanid dynasty ruled over Central Asia until XX century, it is possible people were lately identified as Uzbeks. But still Shaybanids have less impacts on modern Uzbek ethnic.

Ancestors of modern Uzbeks are both Turkic and Sogdian, Bactrian and Toharian who were assimilated. The proof is preserved traditions. Uzbek culture is mixture of Turkic and Iranian. But Uzbek people usually do not consider themselves as turkic or iranian. There are a few pan-turkist among Uzbeks and most of them believe that their ancess Modern Uzbeks have been formed during the Karakhanid dynasty.

Before posting article you should know Uzbekistan itself and Uzbeks, their culture, traditions. Regions of Uzbekistan differ not only in traditions but also dialects and even sometimes outlooks of people. Uzbeks are between Caucasoid and Turkic in ethnical terms and the former leads.Simply Uzbeks are Eurasians, mixed of different ethnics.

Uzbek language is Turkic close to Uyghur (because of Karakhanid) and the culture is close to Iran. But for centuries Uzbeks have developed own cultural identity.

Actually, Vladimir Dzhanibekov should not be included here. He was actually Russian but actually adopted his Uzbek wife's family name. Le Anh-Huy 05:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_talk:Uzbeks.png"

The Caucasoid "Uzbeks" are actually either Russians or Tajiks (descent from Persians/Bactrians/Soghdians). Uzbeks are by defintion Mongoloid. Dupree3 (talk) 03:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Huh? I live in Tashkent, I am Uzbek, I see everyday a lot of Uzbeks, and most of them are Caucasoids. So called "Mongoloid Uzbeks" have Kazakh or Kyrgyz ancestors. Abdullais4u (talk) 10:27, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Uzbeks weren't originally mongoloid. Mongoloid features are met mostly among descendants of turkic uzbeks mixed with mongols or who have mongol ancestry, but turkic uzbeks are not mongoloid. People who claim that uzbeks are mongoloid only because they're turkic didn't study this subject enough. I'm kazakh myself, I'm NOT mongoloid, nor my father or grandfather. So this conclusion, that all "true" uzbeks are mongoloid, is simply unprofessional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.46.217.231 (talk) 15:04, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

The Caucasian looking Uzbeks are ethnical Tajiks or descandants of other Indo-european people who are registered as Uzbeks. The ethnical Uzbeks are of Turko-Mongolian origine. Islam Karimov f.ex. is an Uzbek with jewish ancestory whose grand-father converted to Islam, thus his name. The majority of Uzbeks are east-Asian looking people, only some 30% to 40% are Caucasian looking and are of Iranian descandts, also known as Tajiks who just call themself as Uzbek (citizen, spoken language in the public etc.)--178.4.99.48 (talk) 17:53, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


YOU ARE WRONG..I am Uzbek from Tashkent. I am Caucasoid looking. I am not russian or tajik. My grand father has blue eyes. I know my 7 generation. Even the names. I know how Uzbeks looks. Only 10% looks asian in Tashkent. Real Uzbeks not mixed ones have kind of blonde hair. I ahve bunch of friends who have blonde hair. They are Uzbeks not mixed. At least I know their parents and grandparents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.11.156.163 (talk) 12:43, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

-Reality- Just don't get one thing: Why does not Uzbek accept the real facts? To your information: The origin of the term is not agreed on by everyone, however, those who subscribe to the "Arab" origin of the name agree that it was ultimately applied to those Iranian-speaking Central Asians who adopted Islam. However, the existence of a similar term for the Iranian-speaking people of Azerbaijan, the Tats, leads other linguists and scholars to believe that this is a term used to denote the non-Turkic peoples of the region who were Iranian speaking. I would challenge you to provide a single source documenting that the Tajiks are the descendants of people that moved from Persia - not once have I ever encountered this theory, although I must say that I tend not to read Uzbek accounts of history, because they tend to be quite ridiculous. To act as if there is no physical difference between Tajiks and Uzbeks is not only ridiculous, it defies all reality. You can also say that the sky is green, but it will continue to be blue in reality - Tajiks appear generally Caucasian (I don't think I can be confused for Mongol), while Uzbeks appear generally Asiatic/Mongol. Whatever fantasies the Uzbek nationalists may cherish, unfortunately they will be at odds with reality. There is no shame in being a Turk, or the descendant of later migrants from Mongolia, but it's unfortunate that you and others feel this way about your origins. It is also clear that you do not speak either Tajik or Iranian Farsi, because you don't seem to know anything about the linguistic structure or lexicography of either one - I would suggest that before making sweeping statements or comments about either dialect, you should probably know how to speak it. The Persian element in Uzbek exists because Persian was the primary literary language of the area, and thus all the other regional languages, such as Uzbek, Pashto, Turkish, etc. borrowed extensively from it. Further, the Russian words are obviously from recent origin and in part the result of efforts by the Soviets to Russify the languages of Central Asia. Thus, this analogy is entirely irrelevant. Just as Uzbeks fantasize about being the area's original inhabitants, or descendants of Sogdians, or any number of nonsensical theories, Kazakhs may well fantasize about being European. Both groups need to simply accept reality - they are Altaic-speaking, and Asiatic-looking, and any scholarly publication will tell you that both are the descendants of a wave of Altaic, Turkic migrants from the east. The Tajiks are the direct descendants of the Iranian peoples whose continuous presence in Central Asia and northern Afghanistan is attested from the middle of the 1st millennium bc. The ancestors of the Tajiks constituted the core of the ancient population of Khwārezm (Khorezm) and Bactria, which formed part of Transoxania (Sogdiana). Sogdian is one of the most important Middle Iranian languages, along with Middle Persian and Parthian. It possesses a large literary corpus. The language is usually assigned to the Northeastern branch of the Iranian languages. Sogdiana existed at least since the Achaemenid era (559-323 BC). Like Khotanese Sogdian possesses a more conservative grammar and morphology than Middle Persian. The modern Iranian language Yaghnobi is the descendant of a variant of Sogdian. They were included in the empires of Persia and Alexander the Great, and they intermingled with such later invaders as the Kushāns. How can you possibly and ignorantly say that Uzbek are descendants of Soghdian???

— Preceding unsigned comment added by AryanMK (talkcontribs) 19:58, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


Tajiks have NOTHING to do with Northern Afghanistan, they are immigrants from upper Central Asia. Besides Tajik is not even an ethnic group its a lingustic term meaning "Persian speaker." Get your facts straight!Akmal94 (talk) 06:05, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Timurids[edit]

O.Turani has been repeatedly adding pictures of Timurids, claiming they are Uzbeks.[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. They eventually mention a source [7] but the source directly contradicts O.Turani's claim, say the Timurids were "rivals and opponents of the Uzbeks".[8] In spite of this, O.Turani continues to add claims that the Timurids were Uzbeks.[9][10][11][12] [13][14] [15] Edward321 Edward321 (talk) 14:50, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

The "source" provided by O.Turani supposedly states, "Timor belongs to Turkic tribe of Barlas, and Barlas tribe is one of 92 tribe of Uzbeks, Allworth Edward, The modern Uzbeks from the fourteenth century to the present: a cultural history, Hoover Press, 1990, p.74. A search for Barlas in Allworth's book shows up only on page 82. Even on that page Timurids and Uzbeks are presented as two different groups. --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:25, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Edward321, it was a power struggle between Temurids and Sheibanids rather than ethnic war.Uzbeks to the USSR had two ethnonim - Uzbeks and Turk. Temurids were Barlas tribe and their language was Chagatai (old Uzbek). Barlas are considered today one of the Uzbek tribes. By the way Arthur Conan Doyle also acknowledged that Babur was a great Uzbek[1]. Other Turkic peoples also recognized as Temurids ethnic Uzbeks. Do you think Temurids not Uzbeks then who are they?195.158.27.106 (talk) 09:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://liv.piramidin.com/belas/Doil/soprikosnoweniie.htm

    Занятно порою поразмышлять о людях, что жили в одну эпоху, сыграли заглавные роли на одних подмостках, в одной жизненной пьесе, и при этом не только не встретились, но даже и не знали о существовании друг друга. Только представьте: Великий Могол Бабур [Захиреддин Мухаммед Бабур (1483–1530) — великий узбекский поэт, а также падишах Индии, основатель государства Великих Моголов, потомок Тимура (Тамерлана), в 1526–27 гг. завоевал большую часть Северной Индии.

    .
That is a random webpage, not a reliable source. For that matter, Conan Doyle believed the Cottingley Fairies were real, so he's not a good source for areas he was not expert in. Edward321 (talk) 18:04, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


By the way, you why removed my comments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SAlfanfafafa (talkcontribs) 06:40, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Dear Edward321. you think that modern Uzbeks happened from Öz Beg Khan and no attitude toward Temurids does not have, so? Well all right you want it I will not counteract you. But for the sake of justice you too will delete from the article of Tadjiks historical not Tadjiks (Khwarizmi, Avicena, Biruni, Jami ...). МишаПанко (talk) 17:33, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Uzbek ultra-nationalists should be banned from editing this article, all they do is fill it with nonsense and that destroys Wikipedia's reputation as a reliable source.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 06:46, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2015[edit]

SAlfanfafafa (talk) 06:59, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

This "request" should be denied. I suspect this "new user" is a sock of O.Turani. --Kansas Bear (talk) 07:10, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: no request made Cannolis (talk) 08:40, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2015[edit]

195.158.18.74 (talk) 11:16, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 12:21, 10 May 2015 (UTC)