- For the infobox image's caption, I would add the artist if known. See Naruto Uzumaki and Allen Walker to see what I mean.
- There are two areas that are not completed in the "Media data and Non-free use rationale" box for the infobox image.
- There is still one part that needs to be filled out.
- For the same box, I would expand on the "purpose of use in article" part instead of just saying "Vash's appearance".
- Added
- I do not find this, "It will be used to illustrate Vash's appearance, something discussed in the article.", to be a particularly good description. For starters, this is currently being used in the article so the "will" sentence structure does not make sense. I'd look at something like File:Jill Valentine original outfit.png for inspiration on this part. Aoba47 (talk) 01:26, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Remove this part, "also referred as Vash", as it is not necessary to specify that a character is referenced by their first name alone.
- Remove "the main character" in this part, "is the main character and protagonist of Trigun", as the word "protagonist" already lets the reader know that this is a main character. It is too repetitive right now.
- Done. For some reason I often fine this claims in articles. I sometimes wonder if the lead should start with "is a fictional character"
- For this part, "an anime and manga series that was created by Yasuhiro Nightow", I do not think "that was" is needed. I think you can just say "an anime and manga series created by Yasuhiro Nightow".
- I would change this part, "has a $$60 billion ("double dollar") price on his head", to "has a bounty of $$60 billion ("double dollar")". The "price on his head" wording seems a little informal for me, and my version makes it a little more concise without losing the meaning.
- I would use the fictional currency like this, "$$60 billion", instead as I am uncertain about the parenthetical breaking up the flow of the sentence and since the double dollar currency does not seem important to the character and overall story, I do not think it is particularly necessary to name it here.
- Done. Rearranged lead
- I have some issues with the rearrangements, but I will put those comments at the end. Right now, the fictional currencies link is removed altogether, and it should really be there to clarify to an unfamiliar reader like myself that this currency is fictional. Aoba47 (talk) 01:26, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- This sentence, "He displays a kindhearted character.", is rather short and comes out of left field. I am assuming that you intended it to be a contrast with his more bloodthirsty reputation, but I would try to incorporate this information in the lead in a better way.
- I have a clarification question on this part: "Most of the destruction blamed on Vash is caused by people trying capture or kill him for the reward". Since you use the word "most", I am assuming that Vash himself does cause at least some of this destruction? Just wanted to clarify this as that is how I read it.
- If he is a kindhearted character being mistakenly blamed for most of the destruction caused by others, why does he have a bounty in the first place?
- I am uncertain about this sentence: "Vash is a skilled gunman who spends most of his time traveling and meeting people." The "skilled gunman" part is good and important for a reader's understanding of the character, but I do not really understand the purpose or value of "spends most of his time traveling and meeting people". It just seems rather vague and something that could apply to a lot of other characters. Could you explain to me what it means as I am not familiar with this manga or anime at all?
- Move the pacifism link to this part, "Nightow created Vash as strong gunner who would stand out due to his pacifist ways", as it is the first time the concept is mentioned.
- A link to Western film may be helpful.
- Done
- I have another clarification comment, but this time, it is about "His designs primarily feature a red coat and blond hair". If he always wears the red coat and keeps his blond hair through all of his appearances, then "primarily" is not needed, but if he does not wear the red coat or changes his hair color at times, then "primarily" would be needed. Again, just wanted to clarify this as an unfamiliar reader.
- Revised to explained why the author talks about it in sections below.
- Rework this sentence: "The character was voiced by Masaya Onosaka in Japanese and Johnny Yong Bosch in English who formed friendly bonds with coworkers." The "who..." phrase should be placed directly after the person being described not after the word "English".
- I would revise this sentence, "Nightow expressed surprise at the popularity the character received.", to "Nightow was surprised at the character's popularity" to be more concise.
- I am not sure what this, "pacifism that often backfires in the narrative", means?
- For this part, "The character was popular when the anime adaptation aired", I would say "remained popular in the anime adaptation" instead.
Apologies for the late start to the review. Feel free to address these comments now. I have a few clarification questions/comments as I know absolutely nothing about the manga/anime. That is the fun part of reading Wikipedia and reviewing articles as I can learn new things. I hope my comments are helpful. I definitely should go back to working on fictional character articles in the future. Have a great rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 05:13, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Aoba47: I think covered everything but I kind of rewrote the first paragraph.Tintor2 (talk) 21:41, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the response. Did another revision. Rest for now.Tintor2 (talk) 01:40, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- For this part, " Vash is the most feared outlaw on the planet Gunsmoke", start the sentence with "he" rather than "Vash". The previous sentence starts with the character's name so it would be better to add variety to keep the reader engaged.
- I would revise this part, "The destruction is blamed on Vash", to something like, "The destruction attributed to Vash".
- This one is hard. Revised. Vash is actually responsible for the destruction of a city but it was also triggered by Knives as his past is explored.
- I can understand that is tricky and it is good to summarize the plot accurately, but this sentence, "He is the most feared outlaw on the planet Gunsmoke who has earned a bounty of $$60 billion ("double dollar") for the destruction of a city later revealed to be as a result of a supernatural power Vash failed to control.", is very awkwardly constructed and requires revision. Aoba47 (talk) 09:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I still have the same issue with this part: "who spends most of his time traveling and meeting people". Almost every fictional character spends time traveling and meeting people. Unless there is some more unique about this, it really tells the reader nothing about the character. I would instead use this: "Vash is a skilled gunman whose past is explored while facing enemies working for his twin brother Millions Knives."
- Revised.
- I preferred the original version of the lead where the film was mentioned in the first sentence. It is also unclear what you mean by "one-shots". Are you referencing one-shot (comics)?
- Added links to one-shot but is the film necessary there? I mean the primary media is from mid 90s while the film was released in 2010.
- I would move it to the second paragraph then as the information seems awkwardly tacked on to the end of the paragraph. Aoba47 (talk) 09:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I would also remove this part, "that set him where he forms new bonds and enemies", completely as it does not add anything of value. Almost every story out there involves the protagonist making friends and enemies. Aoba47 (talk) 09:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I looked through the article to look further into the Western film connection, and I could only see it in the sentence in which a Anime News Network said the character seems to be influenced by Western films. Do you have any further information on Nightow looking at Western films to shape this character, specifically his pacifism, because right now, I do not see how it is supported through a citation?
- He only used the term action films.
- Thank you for the clarification. I still think the sentence in the lead needs work though. Aoba47 (talk) 09:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The last half of this sentence, "His designs primarily feature a red coat and blond hair, something is briefly revised in the manga not only due to his hidden weaponry but also supernatural traits.", does not make any sense to me and is awkwardly worded.
- Revised
- I would honestly go back to the original sentence, ""His designs primarily feature a red coat and blond hair.", as it is far more concise and I think the further revisions actually made it worse. I never said to change this sentence. I just had a question about it so I could better understand it. Aoba47 (talk) 09:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- This sentence, "Critical reception to Vash has been positive because he avoids common cliches and embraces pacifism that often backfires in the narrative as when allowing an enemy to live, he can accidentally lead them to kill a person.", is also awkwardly worded and needs to be completely revised. I'd break this up into two sentences instead of trying to make it one. What are these "common cliches"?
- Revised. Hope it helps.
- I have not gotten to these sections yet, but there should not be one-sentence sections like the "Merchandise" and "In popular culture" ones.
- I was thinking of that too. I merged the shorter sections that avoid reviews.
I hope that I do not come across as harsh or rude with these comments. I am just trying to help improve the article as best as I can. I will wait to look through the rest of the article until this part is complete. Hope you are doing well. Aoba47 (talk) 01:46, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I have gone in and heavily revised the lead myself to address most of the points that I have raised above. I did not change these three sentences (the one about Nightow being inspired by action movies to characterize Vash a a pacifist and the two about the critical response to the character's personality and pacifism) as I am honestly not quite certain what is meant there. I would focus your revisions there first. Also, do not forget to address the "n.a." part for the infobox image's "Media data and Non-free use rationale" box. Aoba47 (talk) 09:44, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Aoba47: No problem. I removed the N.A. from the infobox and wrote a text instead. I tried revising the lead again since the manga and anime sections give in general mixed responses in regards to the handling of Vash's pacifism at first.Tintor2 (talk) 14:19, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- BTW, did you revise the sentence about the city's destruction. Don't know if I should revise it.Tintor2 (talk) 14:35, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- As I have already said above, I did heavily revise the lead except for three parts. Aoba47 (talk) 17:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Revised again. Hope it works.Tintor2 (talk) 17:23, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have revised that particular line to read more clearly. I still think the sentence on action films needs work, particularly this part "something he believed was strange in action films as he aimed to explore more the characters he clashes with". I am even more confused about the reception of the character's pacifism. At first, the lead said the reception focused on how Vash's refusal to kill his enemies result in unintended consequences, and now it's about how the story takes the pacifism seriously and criticism on how it is repetitive. That's a completely different angle so I am lost here. Aoba47 (talk) 17:32, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have also just noticed that there are four voice actors mentioned in the infobox, but the lead only ever mentioned two of the four. Why is that? Aoba47 (talk) 18:00, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I must have forgotten about those two actors. I tried making the claim about his pacifist clearer. In the story Vash is completely against the idea of murders to the point he suffers a mental breakdown in the anime when he is forced to kill a person regardless of situation. Nightow's next work was Western based series Gungrave where murders are really common.
- Thank you for the clarification and that makes sense to me. I have revised it somewhat, but I like your revision overall. Aoba47 (talk) 18:59, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
When it comes to critics handling Vash's pacifism, in general it tends to be praised for the depth of the character but in some cases like Mania says in reception, sometimes it can be annoying. For example, in a battle of the manga, Vash defeats one of Knives' assassins but lets him live. Then the manga makes the character hold a weapon and shout something. Immediately afterwards a dude named Wolfwood shoots the assassin but Vash remains in grief for the what happened as he is still against murders due to the morals he was taught by Rem. Hope this helpsTintor2 (talk) 18:12, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for the explanation. I would try to find a sentence that references how some critics enjoyed Vash's pacifism as a way to develop the character, while others did not like. I am not sure exactly how to word it myself, but I think it would better to include something like that in the lead to show that there was a mixed response to this if that makes sense. Aoba47 (talk) 18:59, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- There are both positive and negative responses to Vash's way of life in the reception. You mean changing more the lead?Tintor2 (talk) 19:57, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes. We have been only talking about the lead and infobox parts so far. I would replace the current sentence in the lead with a more specific one that says what aspect of Vash's pacifism received praise and what aspect received criticism. Aoba47 (talk) 20:36, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Tried a bit shorter one. To make it simpler to explain, in his first appearance Vash defeats a band of thieves by shooting them with toy bullets. The series starts in a positive state for Vash considering he is like unlikely hero but it keeps becoming darker when confronting Knives' men.Tintor2 (talk) 21:03, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the explanation. I understand what you mean, but the sentence still needs further work. Parts of the current sentence, (His ideals of pacifism earned mix response due to initially standing out as a heroic figure while also leading to negative consequences should it fail.), is not grammatically correct. Specifically, this part, (initially standing out as a heroic figure), does not really work in the context of the overall sentence. Again, I understand what you mean, but the wording needs improvement. I would also avoid saying the word "earned" in this context, and I think "received" would be a better word choice here. It should also be "a mixed response" not just "mix response". I will start reviewing this next section when this part is ironed out further. Aoba47 (talk) 17:51, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Change those. Hope it works.Tintor2 (talk) 18:12, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I have revised it further. I will post my comments for the "Concept and creation" section, including the "Voice actors" subsection, by the end of today. I am in the Eastern Time Zone for reference. Thank you for your patience with the review. I am just trying to be as thorough as possible to improve the article as much as possible. Aoba47 (talk) 19:45, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- No prob. By the way, a fellow user gave the prose a look to revise possible issues.Tintor2 (talk) 21:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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