Talk:Zeybeks

Turkish origin

For some reason the Greeks are obsessed with claiming that they are of Greek origin. Trying to claim that Turks didn't beat during the Turkish Independence War, but sell out Greeks did. However, there were Greek guerrilla fighters, and none of them were called Zeybek or even Efe. On top of that, those guerrilla fighters all fought for Greece. And contributed to genocides and atrocities against Turks. So, this claim is clearly false. The sources used are also unreliable. For example, someone keeps adding just the author and a random page... So, you can't check anything. The same user reverted my edits. And one of the sources claimed that Zeybeks were Greek, because Greeks happened to be influenced by Turkish culture...

Lastly, all those false claims are made from random Greek IP addresses who only vandalized the pages, and never edited anything after that.

MrUnoDosTres (talk) 04:50, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

The given source from 2005 says they descend from Thracians who aren't even Greeks, so I removed it because the sentence contradicts the source itself. Atabegli (talk) 12:22, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Formal request has been received to merge: Çetes into Zeybeks; dated: October 2022. Proposer's Rationale: "They are basically the same thing but the word "Çete" means gang in Turkish so by the point of view of Greeks who lived in Asia Minor during that period they were called "Çete" but in a historical point of view they are basically called Zeybeks so I think these 2 articles should be merged. --User:DarkXFast." Discuss here. GenQuest ^"scribble" 05:22, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

For now oppose pending clarification: @DarkXFast: Do you have any reliable sources that explicitly connect the two terms? The current page says that "Çetes" has been used as a synonym for members of the "Special Organization", but that does not seem synonymous with Zeybeks. (Coming from WikiProject Merge). Felix QW (talk) 17:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

As I said çete means "gang" in the Turkish language. The Special Organization was the intelligence agency during that period since they were doing covert operations they were most likely referred to as "Çete" so that information is more about the word itself rather than the irregular militia. It would be hard to find a source because for the Greek side those guys were bandits so and of course they would refer to them as bandits or gangs rather than their name. In the wiki page of Zeybeks it mentions this "During and after the Turkish War of Independence they were no longer seen as bandits and outlaws, but as heroes, nationalist forces fighting against a foreign and non-muslim force." with a source and it becomes pretty clear that these two articles are mentioning the same group when you read and compare both of them. DarkXFast (talk) 18:52, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

My concern is that if one would merge the current content to the Zeybek article, it would imply e.g. that the Zeybeks are notorious for atrocities against Christian Orthodox Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians during the 1910s and 1920s, and that would be unwarranted if this isn't mentioned as such in sources.

If we don't merge the single sentences there currently, that would essentially be blanking and redirecting to Zeybeks, which would still require a meaningful mention at the target (which again is difficult without sources). Felix QW (talk) 19:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.