Talk:Zyn
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On 14 August 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Zyn (nicotine pouches) to Zyn. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Requested move 14 August 2024
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 10:46, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
– Clear primary topic (70 000 page views in the past month compared to 300-1000 on other pages). There is no other article with just the title "Zyn" either. C F A 💬 03:05, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom. --Un assiolo (talk) 12:20, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support, clear primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 01:20, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support: Seems like a no-brainer. Waqar💬 15:17, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
Requesting updates
[edit]This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Hello, I would like to suggest a few updates to this entry (mostly adding references, updating numbers or clarifying inconsistencies). I have separated each section and added the corresponding wikitext so that it is easier to review, but let me know if you know of a better way.
- Lead section
Clarified all caps naming (in line with what is in other articles, see e.g. Time (magazine));
Updated market share to 2023 (60->70%);
Clarified that nicotine pouches are compared but not related to snus (which is more in line with what the reference used indicates);
Moved the Swedish Match/PMI ownership to the second paragraph as this is important but not exactly central to the product;
Slight tweak to cover the fact that it is increasingly available outside of the US/Europe.
suggested edits
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Here is the wikicode with references: '''Zyn''' (stylized in [[all caps]] as "'''ZYN'''") is a brand of [[nicotine pouch]]es. Zyn pouches are designed to be placed between the gum and either the upper lip or lower lip, allowing [[nicotine]] to be absorbed through the bloodstream and are available in several variants with different [[nicotine salt|nicotine]] strengths and flavours. While often compared to [[snus]], nicotine pouches do not contain any tobacco, but remain [[Addiction|addictive]] due to their nicotine content.<ref>{{Cite book |last=Organization |first=World Health |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=P6MOEQAAQBAJ&dq=difference+snus+%22nicotine+pouches%22&pg=PA84 |title=WHO study group on tobacco product regulation. Report on the scientific basis of tobacco product regulation: ninth report of a WHO study group |date=2023-08-23 |publisher=World Health Organization |isbn=978-92-4-007941-0 |language=en}}</ref> The brand was created by [[Swedish Match]], a subsidiary of [[Philip Morris International]] since 2022.<ref name="Delist2">{{Cite web |author=Marie Mannes |date=2022-11-28 |title=Philip Morris to de-list Swedish Match after raising stake to 93% |url=https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/philip-morris-says-delist-swedish-match-after-raising-stake-93-2022-11-28/ |website=Reuters}}</ref> It is mainly distributed in the United States, where it represented over 70% of the nicotine pouch industry in 2023, but it is also available in Scandinavia, the UK and other countries, primarily in Europe. |
- History
A bit more coherent story of the launch (first test marketing in Colorado, then Sweden, then the whole US);
A bit of context vis-à-vis the rest of the company portfolio (the text diff shows a big change but it only adds the mention of Shiro, an earlier nicotine pouch acquisition);
Sales numbers are moving to a new section, as per other articles I have seen here and there (see below)
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Here is the corresponding wikicode with references: Zyn pouches were initially launched on a small scale in the US market, first being marketed in [[Colorado]], and then in various western US states during 2016.<ref name="2016report">{{Cite web |date=2017 |title=Annual Report 2016 |url=https://www.swedishmatch.com/globalassets/reports/annual-reports/2016_swedishmatchannualreport_en.pdf |website=Swedish Match}}</ref> Zyn pouches also began to be marketed in [[Sweden]] in 2016.<ref name="2016report" /> From 2017 to 2019 one of Swedish Match's US plants, located in [[Owensboro, Kentucky]], was expanded to handle the manufacturing of Zyn pouches directly in the US.<ref name="richmond2">{{Cite web |author=John Reid Blackwell |date=2019-03-27 |title=Swedish Match starting nationwide rollout of tobacco-free nicotine pouch product |url=https://richmond.com/swedish-match-starting-nationwide-rollout-of-tobacco-free-nicotine-pouch-product/article_ec408cb1-586a-50da-8e26-31caf74bddf1.html |website=Richmond.com}}</ref><ref name="LaneReport2">{{Cite web |date=2017-08-31 |title=Swedish Match to invest $41 million in Owensboro operation creating 36 jobs |url=https://www.lanereport.com/80889/2017/08/swedish-match-to-invest-41-million-in-owensboro-operation-creating-36-jobs/ |website=Lane Report}}</ref> The works required an investment of $115 million and the new plant opened in May 2019.<ref name="OwensboroMay142">{{Cite web |author=Ashley Sorce |date=2019-05-14 |title=Swedish Match cuts ribbon on $115 million expansion of Owensboro-exclusive product line |url=https://www.owensborotimes.com/features/business/2019/05/swedish-match-cuts-ribbon-on-115-million-expansion-of-owensboro-exclusive-product-line/ |website=Owensboro Times}}</ref> By the end of 2018, Zyn pouches were available in about 13,500 stores in the United States<ref name="2018report">{{Cite web |date=2019 |title=Annual Report 2018 |url=https://www.swedishmatch.com/globalassets/reports/annual-reports/2018_swedishmatchannualreport_en.pdf |website=Swedish Match}}</ref> and by the end of 2020, they were available in about 100,000 US stores.<ref name="MoodieDavitt2">{{Cite web |author=Dermot Davitt |date=2021-11-18 |title=Swedish Match targets growth for nicotine pouch brand ZYN in Middle East |url=https://www.moodiedavittreport.com/swedish-match-targets-growth-for-nicotine-pouch-brand-zyn-in-middle-east/ |website=The Moodie Davitt Report}}</ref> Zyn pouches have also been distributed in other countries<ref>{{Cite web |date=2020-09-01 |title=Out of the Bag |url=https://tobaccoreporter.com/2020/09/01/out-of-the-bag/ |website=TobaccoReporter}}</ref> such as the [[United Kingdom|UK]] (since 2019),<ref name="2019report">{{Cite web |date=2020 |title=Annual Report 2019 |url=https://www.swedishmatch.com/globalassets/reports/annual-reports/2019_swedishmatchannualreport_interactive_en.pdf |website=Swedish Match}}</ref> [[Switzerland]] (since 2021),<ref>{{Cite web |author=Sarah Serafini |date=2022-05-13 |title=Snus ist in aller Munde – jetzt springt Philip Morris auf den Trend auf |url=https://www.watson.ch/schweiz/gesundheit/453688174-philip-morris-setzt-auf-snus-und-kauft-die-firma-swedish-match |website=watson.ch |language=de}}</ref> [[South Africa]] and [[Pakistan]] (since 2023).<ref name="2023Markets">{{Cite web |date=2024-04-04 |title=Nicotine Pouches - ZYN Expansion Plans |url=https://tobaccoinsider.com/nicotine-pouches/ |website=Tobacco Insider}}</ref> In November 2022, Swedish Match was acquired by [[Philip Morris International]].<ref name="Delist3" /> Zyn has been identified among the strategic brands acquired by the tobacco giant to achieve its vision of a "smoke-free future", alongside the company's existing portfolio of [[Iqos]] [[Heated tobacco product|heated tobacco]] and [[Veev]] [[vaping]] products.<ref name="FT20222" /> Previously, Philip Morris already had nicotine pouches in its product range through the Shiro brand, acquired by PMI in May 2021 with the purchase of the Danish company AG Snus.<ref name="TobaccoTacticsDef" /> Zyn pouches have experienced rapid growth in popularity among American consumers, especially from 2023 onwards.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-04-23 |title=Philip Morris Reports Soaring Sales of Zyn Nicotine Pouches |url=https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-earnings-04-23-2024/card/philip-morris-reports-soaring-sales-of-zyn-nicotine-pouches-O7xHxXH80nIleW29aNlY |website=[[The Wall Street Journal]]}}</ref> |
- Design
Minor fixes / internationalization (smokeless and dipping tobacco are very US)
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Zyn pouches are sold in round cans containing 15 or 20 pouches depending on the market. Pouches are available in different levels of nicotine strength (such as 3 or 6 milligrams per pouch in the US) and different flavored and unflavored varieties.<ref name="richmond3" /> The pouches contain nicotine extracted from tobacco leaves, and food grade ingredients.<ref>{{Cite web |author=Rich Duprey |date=2019-08-26 |title=This Under-the-Radar Smoking Alternative Could Be Bigger Than E-Cigs |url=https://finance.yahoo.com/news/under-radar-smoking-alternative-could-142500126.html?guccounter=1 |website=Yahoo Finance}}</ref> The pouches themselves are made of plant fibers, which allow the nicotine to diffuse out of the pouch when moistened.<ref name="LesEchos2">{{Cite web |author=Clément Perruche |date=2022-05-09 |title=Tabac : Philip Morris sur le point de racheter le suédois Swedish Match AB |url=https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/conso-distribution/tabac-philip-morris-sur-le-point-de-racheter-le-suedois-swedish-match-ab-1405827 |website=Les Echos |language=fr}}</ref> They are designed to be placed between the user's upper lip and gum, or between the gum and cheek, and used for around 30 minutes.<ref>{{Cite web |author=Diane Caruana |date=2022-05-19 |title=ZYN Launches Tobacco Flavoured Nicotine Pouches |url=https://www.vapingpost.com/2022/05/19/zyn-launches-tobacco-flavoured-nicotine-pouches/ |website=Vaping Post}}</ref> |
- Sales (new section)
Lots of numbers, with references. The product has seen quite a significant growth since launch and it has been noted across media outlets, hence the dedicated section based off what was before in the history part. Again, this structure is copied from other articles elsewhere on this wiki.
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According to Swedish Match, sales of Zyn in the US totaled 12.7 million cans in 2018 and 50.4 million in 2019.<ref name=2019report/> The company said in its annual report that 2018 was the first year it became profitable in the US in the snus and nicotine pouches segment.<ref name=2018report/> Sales of Zyn pouches have then grown rapidly and have contributed to a significant increase in Swedish Match's revenues from 2020 onwards.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/swedish-match-results-idINL5N2EN5GY |title=Swedish Match profit rise beats forecasts helped by ZYf sales |website=Reuters |date=2020-07-17}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/tobacco-nicotine-group-swedish-matchs-q3-profit-matches-expectations-2022-10-28/ |title=Swedish Match continues to see strong smoke-free sales growth |website=Reuters |date=2022-10-28}}</ref> The company sold nearly 130 million nicotine pouch cans in the US in 2020<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.swedishmatch.com/globalassets/reports/annual-reports/2020_swedishmatchannualreport_interactive_en.pdf |title=Annual Report 2020 |website=Swedish Match |date=2021}}</ref> and nearly 198 million in 2021.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://cspdailynews.com/tobacco/pmi-talks-acquire-swedish-match |title=PMI in Talks to Acquire Swedish Match |website=CSP Daily News |date=2022-05-09}}</ref> According to Philip Morris International, 384.8 million Zyn cans were sold worldwide in 2023, up 62% from 237 million cans in 2022.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.convenience.org/Media/Daily/2024/Feb/13/3-Smoke-Free-Products-40-2023-Revenue_CatMan |title=Smoke-Free Products Nearly 40% of 2023 Total Revenue for PMI |website=Convenience.org |date=2024-02-13}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-03-04 |title=Zyn Is the New Vaping |url=https://time.com/6836195/zyn-nicotine-pouches-popularity/ |access-date=2024-05-08 |website=[[Time (magazine)|TIME]] |language=en}}</ref> Between 2019 and 2022, Swedish Match had a market share of around 60% in nicotine pouches in the US with the Zyn brand.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9667333/ |title=Nicotine Pouch Sales Trends in the US by Volume and Nicotine Concentration Levels From 2019 to 2022 |website=National Library of Medecine |date=2022-11-15}}</ref><ref name="FT2022">{{Cite web |url=https://www.ft.com/content/a624ec6b-bc6a-4b51-9d09-e83a532c4ddf |title=Philip Morris wins Elliott's backing for $15.7bn Swedish Match takeover |website=Financial Times |date=2022-11-06}}</ref> From 2023, the brand's market share has grown to over 70%.<ref name="MarketBeat">{{Cite web |author=Pat Crawley |url=https://www.marketbeat.com/originals/philip-morris-steady-dividends-with-new-growth-levers/ |title=Philip Morris: Steady Dividends With New Growth Levers |website=MarketBeat |date=2023-03-06}}</ref> |
- Criticism
Moved the generic nicotine pouch, health-related issues to the top, then progressing into zyn-specific discussions. Criticism and controversies seems more appropriate as a section title, but I leave this up to reviewers to decide.
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Nicotine pouches are addictive and the long-term health effects remain unknown.<ref name="richmond" /> Consumption of nicotine pouches seem to result in levels of nicotine in the blood that are similar to those from cigarettes.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2022-10-07 |title=Health risk assessment of nicotine pouches |url=https://www.bfr.bund.de/cm/349/health-risk-assessment-of-nicotine-pouches.pdf |website=[[Federal Institute for Risk Assessment]]}}</ref> Among [[Side effect (medicine)|side effects]] associated with the consumption of nicotine pouches, users reported gum irritation, [[hiccups]] or [[nausea]].<ref name="Nebraska2">{{Cite web |title=Nicotine pouches: Are they safer than chewing, smoking or vaping? |url=https://health.unl.edu/nicotine-pouches-are-they-safer-chewing-smoking-or-vaping |website=University of Nebraska}}</ref> Various tobacco-control advocates have also alleged that the pouches could constitute [[Gateway drug effect|gateway products]] for youth.<ref name="TobaccoTacticsDef2">{{Cite web |date=2024-04-05 |title=Nicotine Pouches |url=https://tobaccotactics.org/article/nicotine-pouches/ |website=Tobacco Tactics}}</ref> In 2021, Swedish Match was criticized in the UK for its Zyn marketing on social media, including presenting its nicotine pouches as a supplement to regular smoking in places where smoking is banned, with the slogan "Can't smoke? Can't vape? Can Zyn".<ref name="uk2">{{Cite web |author=Rob Davies |date=2021-11-08 |title=Firms under fire for using UK influencers to push nicotine products |url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/08/firms-under-fire-for-using-uk-influencers-to-push-nicotine-products |website=The Guardian}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |author=Dasha Afanasieva |date=2023-04-15 |title=Big Tobacco Pushes Nicotine Pouches as Vaping Hit by Curbs |url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-15/big-tobacco-pushes-nicotine-pouches-as-vaping-hit-by-curbs |website=Bloomberg}}</ref> In 2024, further criticism emerged regarding Zyn's rewards program in the US. The program, which allows users to accumulate points for purchases and redeem them for prizes<ref>{{Cite web |title=ZYN Rewards Program: Prizes, How It Works, Maximum Points {{!}} Prime® Nic Pouches |url=https://www.primenicpouches.co.uk/zyn-rewards |access-date=2024-08-15 |website=www.primenicpouches.co.uk |language=en}}</ref>, was characterized by some media outlets as incentivizing nicotine use, leading to headlines such as "Use nicotine, win an iPad!"<ref>{{Cite news |last=Demopoulos |first=Alaina |date=2024-05-20 |title=Use nicotine, win an iPad! Zyn’s viral rewards program fuels addiction fears |url=https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/20/zyn-pouches-nicotine-rewards-program |access-date=2024-08-15 |work=The Guardian |language=en-GB |issn=0261-3077}}</ref>. In early 2024, Zyn pouches sparked a political controversy in the United States around the need for tighter regulations.<ref name="AP-News2024">{{Cite web |date=2024-03-02 |title=Zyn nicotine pouches are all over TikTok, sparking debate among politicians and health experts |url=https://www.livemint.com/news/zyn-nicotine-pouches-are-all-over-tiktok-sparking-debate-among-politicians-and-health-experts-11709318455389.html |website=LiveMint}}</ref> |
Thank you for your time and effort! Aphis Marta (talk) 11:55, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think you will need to explain in some detail why you are attempting to remove significant elements of the following text from the 'Criticism' section:
- "Nicotine pouches are addictive and the long-term health effects remain unknown due to the lack of history for the recreational use of non-tobacco snus. However, while not carcinogenic, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor that moderately harms cardiovascular health, which can cause higher risks for cardiovascular diseases, stroke, and reproductive harm if used over long-term periods.[23][24][25] Among side effects associated with the consumption of nicotine pouches, users reported gum irritation, hiccups or nausea.[26]"
- Your thoughts please... Axad12 (talk) 14:36, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Axad12 I am not sure I understand your question as this particular segment is litterally moved from the end of the section to being the very first sentence? If the question is why the sentence is shorter (with the part due to the lack of history etc., it's because this part has been added last week only and thus wasn't in the draft I'd been working from. Apologies for the oversight.
- Here is the revised segment including these recent additions:
corrected section
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Nicotine pouches are addictive and the long-term health effects remain unknown due to the lack of history for the recreational use of non-tobacco [[snus]]. However, while not [[carcinogen|carcinogenic]], nicotine is a [[vasoconstriction|vasoconstrictor]] that moderately harms cardiovascular health, which can cause higher risks for [[cardiovascular disease]]s, [[stroke]], and reproductive harm if used over long-term periods.<ref>{{Cite journal |last=Whitehead |first=Anna K. |last2=Erwin |first2=Abigail P. |last3=Yue |first3=Xinping |date=2021-04 |title=Nicotine and Vascular Dysfunction |url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026694/#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20vascular%20reactivity,independent%20mechanisms%20(Figure%202).&text=Figure%202.,dependent%20and%20endothelium-independent%20mechanisms. |journal=Acta physiologica (Oxford, England) |volume=231 |issue=4 |pages=e13631 |doi=10.1111/apha.13631 |issn=1748-1708 |pmc=8026694 |pmid=33595878}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Avenue |first=677 Huntington |last2=Boston |last3=Ma 02115 |date=2024-04-16 |title=Zyn pouches safer than smoking, but still pose risks |url=https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/zyn-pouches-safer-than-smoking-but-still-pose-risks/ |access-date=2024-09-10 |website=News |language=en-us}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-04-24 |title=Are Oral Nicotine Pouches Safe? {{!}} Johns Hopkins {{!}} Bloomberg School of Public Health |url=https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/are-oral-nicotine-pouches-safe |access-date=2024-09-10 |website=publichealth.jhu.edu |language=en}}</ref> Various tobacco-control advocates have also alleged that the pouches could constitute [[Gateway drug effect|gateway products]] for youth.<ref name="TobaccoTacticsDef2">{{Cite web |date=2024-04-05 |title=Nicotine Pouches |url=https://tobaccotactics.org/article/nicotine-pouches/ |website=Tobacco Tactics}}</ref><br/> In 2021, Swedish Match was criticized in the UK for its Zyn marketing on social media, including presenting its nicotine pouches as a supplement to regular smoking in places where smoking is banned, with the slogan "Can't smoke? Can't vape? Can Zyn".<ref name="uk2">{{Cite web |author=Rob Davies |date=2021-11-08 |title=Firms under fire for using UK influencers to push nicotine products |url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/08/firms-under-fire-for-using-uk-influencers-to-push-nicotine-products |website=The Guardian}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |author=Dasha Afanasieva |date=2023-04-15 |title=Big Tobacco Pushes Nicotine Pouches as Vaping Hit by Curbs |url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-15/big-tobacco-pushes-nicotine-pouches-as-vaping-hit-by-curbs |website=Bloomberg}}</ref> In 2024, further criticism emerged regarding Zyn's rewards program in the US. The program, which allows users to accumulate points for purchases and redeem them for prizes<ref>{{Cite web |title=ZYN Rewards Program: Prizes, How It Works, Maximum Points {{!}} Prime® Nic Pouches |url=https://www.primenicpouches.co.uk/zyn-rewards |access-date=2024-08-15 |website=www.primenicpouches.co.uk |language=en}}</ref>, was characterized by some media outlets as incentivizing nicotine use, leading to headlines such as "Use nicotine, win an iPad!"<ref>{{Cite news |last=Demopoulos |first=Alaina |date=2024-05-20 |title=Use nicotine, win an iPad! Zyn’s viral rewards program fuels addiction fears |url=https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/20/zyn-pouches-nicotine-rewards-program |access-date=2024-08-15 |work=The Guardian |language=en-GB |issn=0261-3077}}</ref>. <br/>In early 2024, Zyn pouches sparked a political controversy in the United States around the need for tighter regulations.<ref name="AP-News2024">{{Cite web |date=2024-03-02 |title=Zyn nicotine pouches are all over TikTok, sparking debate among politicians and health experts |url=https://www.livemint.com/news/zyn-nicotine-pouches-are-all-over-tiktok-sparking-debate-among-politicians-and-health-experts-11709318455389.html |website=LiveMint}}</ref> |
- Also the wikitext here appears like a wall of code but I've added 2 breaking spaces <br/> so as to keep it as three paragraphs.
- Thanks, Aphis Marta (talk) 06:58, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: The element under discussion here, removed in the original request, stated
while not carcinogenic, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor that moderately harms cardiovascular health, which can cause higher risks for cardiovascular diseases, stroke, and reproductive harm if used over long-term periods.
After removing that text the relevant section would state simplyAmong side effects associated with the consumption of nicotine pouches, users reported gum irritation, hiccups or nausea.
- It is concerning that the editor continues to present arguments in favour of the removal of the text while describing the removal as having been simply an oversight based on issues caused by version control.
- I don't engage in arguments with COI users who are being paid to argue. I'd suggest that future editors exercise caution when dealing with large edit requests on this article which include edits to the section involved. Axad12 (talk) 08:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- The request for the first sections were legitimate: this seems to be a high-traffic article so it's best to keep it up-to-date and the material provided did the job. I've changed the Criticism section title to Controversies, my reasoning being that criticism would be directed at the product ("it tastes bad") whereas controversies would better reflect disagreement on the appropriateness of their marketing campaigns.
- With this in mind, I have marked the request as only partially answered because the discussion above turned out to be full of surprises: yes, OP messed up on the worst possible segment considering their industry, but I'm a big believer of not attributing to malice what can be easily explained by incompetence (no offense meant). They gave a convincing enough (because short) explanation, apologized and simply submitted a corrected text. This seemed genuine to me and accusing them of bad faith feels a bit... extreme maybe?
- But that's not what bothers me most here: I did not implement the changes requested for this particular section because I made the mistake of checking the references and all but one of these health-related citations... fail to discuss the Zyn product itself (the one that can be described as zyn-centric mostly argues that while very addictive, using it is certainly much less dangerous than smoking). My inclination at this stage is to move any material that discusses the product category to where it belongs (ie, the nicotine pouch article, if it is not already there), and only allow for zyn-specific content to be added on here.
- I also took the time to go and check various articles pertaining to cigarettes brands (and drugs, and video games): generic considerations about the harms caused by their respective product categories are never really brought up because, quite rightfully in my opinion, this is not the point. Things then got even better when I realized that the Original Sin of inviting cautionary health considerations about nicotine pouches into this entry was... OP's own doing[1] It is a bit ironic, therefore, to call them out for trying to hide things. Superboilles (talk) 22:44, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
- There are limits to the application of WP:AGF. When a paid representative of the cigarette industry attempts to remove information about the negative health impacts of nicotine (a week after that information was added) that sort of action goes way beyond the limits of assuming good faith.
- In addition the explanation for the removal, that it was accidental, was entirely unconvincing. Apart from anything else, the 'suggested edit' diff (above) indicated that the text referred to had been specifically and intentionally removed, rather than having been accidentally left out of the proposed new text due to version control issues.
- Re: your point about the 'OP's own doing', if you can't see the difference between the minor health issues that the OP introduced to the text and the serious health issues that they tried to remove, then evidently you are exceptionally naive.
- Also, it appears that you are do not understand the meaning of the word 'ironic' (the word you were looking for was presumably something like 'incongruous', which is a different thing altogether - although calling out the OP was in fact neither ironic nor incongruous). Axad12 (talk) 08:29, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- I have also reverted your implementation of the other changes in the edit, as you were blatantly canvassed to appear here by the paid COI editor (on your talk page). Axad12 (talk) 09:07, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- As indicated, I have this page on my watchlist, as I do for pretty much any article I move from the draft space. It is ok to notify people to ask for an opinion, and I willingly gave mine. Having worked in the corporate world for some time, I also very much believe OP when she said that the draft she's been working from is several weeks old. In fact, seeing how big PMI is I would be shocked to learn that it has not been reviewed many times over, hence their missing recent edits when time came to finally request these changes. I would also note that they clearly did not try to hide things as they litterally used a comparison template that allowed you to spot the missing text.
- I am very open to comparing notes as to how we both deal with CoI editors and how we can best foster an uneasy collaboration with them. I mostly do Draft reviews, where people are judged on the content being brought to the table rather than their alleged intent in doing so (discussions are rare). Your advice is thus very much welcome, but I believe that making this an ''us vs. them'' misses the point of ''us vs. the problem" (of keeping articles up to date).
- I made it clear that the Criticisms section needed rework, and did not implement any of the suggested changes there. Your replies so far also focused on this section alone. Yet you reverted the entirety of my edits on the rest of the page (denying me agency, which I find a little uncouth tbh). I want to work this out with you, and so my question at this stage is: do you know of any particular reason why this entry should not be updated with more recent numbers? Superboilles (talk) 20:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your comments.
- I deal with conflict of interest editing pretty much every day (either COI edit requests or cases raised at WP:COIN). Unfortunately it’s a frequent event for COI editors to attempt to remove adverse material about their employer or client. Sometimes this is done in a direct and overt fashion, sometimes as a small part of a much larger edit request.
- I don’t believe that dealing with COI editing results in a polarised ‘them and us’ situation. I’ve seen far too many productive and policy compliant edit requests from COI editors to believe that. I’m also aware that the COI edit request process exists to keep COI activity above ground.
- However, the attempt to remove the element of text under discussion here will be viewed by the great majority of independent editors as an abuse of the COI editing process.
- I see from the COI user’s contribution history that this isn't the first time that they have attempted to make such a removal, for example here: [2] where it was later observed that one element of a larger edit request attempted to remove longstanding material in relation to the FDA's criticism of PMI's proposed health claims. This was then explained by the user rather unconvincingly as having been
meant to cut length [of the relevant section] only, not to remove specific information or POV
. - Please also see this user talkpage thread [3] where the user was warned to stop
repeatedly asking for removal of negative information that is well sourced
. This point was made by two separate editors in consecutive years. - When a user has such a history it is not reasonable to assume that further violation was accidental. Admittedly the incidents above occurred some years ago, but they are unlikely to have been forgotten by the COI user as the issues raised are clearly central to the topic of COI edit requests, and indeed to the integrity of the encyclopaedia.
- I see that you are keen to claim agency and that you were not canvassed, but when placed in a position when you might be effectively (and unwittingly) doing the bidding of a paid COI editor I would suggest it is good practice to investigate whether the issue that has been raised is part of a long established pattern rather than simply assuming good faith, taking the paid COI editor’s side of the argument and dismissing problematic conduct as an understandable mistake, as though it were an isolated incident (which in this case clearly it was not).
- While this COI editor has only been occasionally active I believe that they have a problematic history and that future edit requests should be treated with considerable caution. Axad12 (talk) 04:36, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
- Well thanks for the bit of six-years old archaeology, I see that everyone remained civil and they should get kudos for that. It is sad however that the warnings were very performative, knee-jerk reaction to who she represents and not what she did. Again, there was no hiding, no wrongdoing was flagged, only disagreements. That is, after all, the whole point of edit requests unless the whole plan is to punish people for doing what we ask them to (it is a rhetorical point; you are clear that is not what you intend). She asked for things, those requests were transparents, and some of them were declined: that does not make her a bad person, lest we decide that a "good" CoI editor is someone whose requests get accepted 100% of the time. The no cheating is the important part to me, and one can not argue that she cheated at any one point of her limited editing career. The only edits I can see that she did without going through a request were minor updates and reverting vandalisms, which are both welcome as per local rules. Substantial text revisions always went through Edit Requests.
- This being said and as much as I enjoy reading and discuss this website's and its editors history, I also would like to move forward and go back to my own stuff (and probably so do you). When you say
future edit requests should be treated with considerable caution
, what do you have in mind? Seeing how neither of us found any objection to the first four section updates, should she repost the exact same request so a third editor reviews them, or should we agree to agree, implement them, and reject the last one as we both did albeit in different manners? Superboilles (talk) 21:14, 25 September 2024 (UTC)- In answer to your question
what do [I] have in mind?
- What I was suggesting was that if the COI editor makes any further requests then the non-conflicted users who review them should treat the requests with considerable caution given the COI editor's history of attempting to remove well sourced adverse material as part of larger edits.
- I'm not really sure how that could have been made more clear.
- As for
that does not make her a bad person
, I don't believe I've made any suggestion to that effect. - Some COI editors attempt to remove adverse material about their employers or clients. Those who do that sometimes stop once they've been asked to stop, sometimes they continue.
- The edit requests of those who continue their attempts should be treated with caution and it is entirely reasonable to leave a note on an article talk page to that effect.
- As a general observation, not specific to this thread, you seem to believe that all COI edit requests (and, presumably by extension, all AfCs) must have been made in good faith because they were conducted above ground and in plain sight. To be honest I think that suggests a lack of imagination on your part. The reality is that such editors routinely try to see how much promo etc they can get away with. Sadly that sort of "push your luck" ethic is tacitly encouraged by those reviewers who believe that everything requested in plain sight must, by definition, be legitimate. Axad12 (talk) 02:58, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- I am sure your opinion come from things you've experienced. So does mine. I appreciate your input. Superboilles (talk) 22:26, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- In answer to your question
- I have also reverted your implementation of the other changes in the edit, as you were blatantly canvassed to appear here by the paid COI editor (on your talk page). Axad12 (talk) 09:07, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: The element under discussion here, removed in the original request, stated
Update request
[edit]The user below has a request that an edit be made to Zyn. That user has an actual or apparent conflict of interest. The requested edits backlog is very low. There are currently 39 requests waiting for review. Please read the instructions for the parameters used by this template for accepting and declining them, and review the request below and make the edit if it is well sourced, neutral, and follows other Wikipedia guidelines and policies. |
Hello, following up on the discussion above and as there did not seem to be any objection to updating numbers so I am reposting my request (minus the controversies section). Feel free to ping me if I've missed anything.
- Lead section
Note: the infobox should also be updated to reflect that the first launch occured in 2016, not 2014 (the category is already correct). South Africa and Pakistan can also be added to the list of markets.
Clarified all caps naming (in line with what is in other articles, see e.g. Time (magazine)); Updated market share to 2023 (60->70%); Clarified that nicotine pouches are compared but not related to snus (which is more in line with what the reference used indicates); Moved the Swedish Match/PMI ownership to the second paragraph as this is important but not exactly central to the product; Slight tweak to cover the fact that it is increasingly available outside of the US/Europe.
suggested edits
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References
Here is the wikicode with references: '''Zyn''' (stylized in [[all caps]] as "'''ZYN'''") is a brand of [[nicotine pouch]]es. Zyn pouches are designed to be placed between the gum and either the upper lip or lower lip, allowing [[nicotine]] to be absorbed through the bloodstream and are available in several variants with different [[nicotine salt|nicotine]] strengths and flavours. While often compared to [[snus]], nicotine pouches do not contain any tobacco, but remain [[Addiction|addictive]] due to their nicotine content.<ref>{{Cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=P6MOEQAAQBAJ&dq=difference+snus+%22nicotine+pouches%22&pg=PA84 |title=WHO study group on tobacco product regulation. Report on the scientific basis of tobacco product regulation: ninth report of a WHO study group |date=2023-08-23 |publisher=World Health Organization |isbn=978-92-4-007941-0 |language=en}}</ref> The brand was created by [[Swedish Match]], a subsidiary of [[Philip Morris International]] since 2022.<ref name="Delist2">{{Cite web |author=Marie Mannes |date=2022-11-28 |title=Philip Morris to de-list Swedish Match after raising stake to 93% |url=https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/philip-morris-says-delist-swedish-match-after-raising-stake-93-2022-11-28/ |website=Reuters}}</ref> It is mainly distributed in the United States, where it represented over 70% of the nicotine pouch industry in 2023, but it is also available in Scandinavia, the UK and other countries, primarily in Europe. |
- History
A bit more coherent story of the launch (first test marketing in Colorado, then Sweden, then the whole US);
A bit of context vis-à-vis the rest of the company portfolio (the text diff shows a big change but it only adds the mention of Shiro, an earlier nicotine pouch acquisition);
Sales numbers are moving to a new section, as per other articles I have seen here and there (see below)
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References
Here is the corresponding wikicode with references: Zyn pouches were initially launched on a small scale in the US market, first being marketed in [[Colorado]], and then in various western US states during 2016.<ref name="2016report">{{Cite web |date=2017 |title=Annual Report 2016 |url=https://www.swedishmatch.com/globalassets/reports/annual-reports/2016_swedishmatchannualreport_en.pdf |website=Swedish Match}}</ref> Zyn pouches also began to be marketed in [[Sweden]] in 2016.<ref name="2016report" /> From 2017 to 2019 one of Swedish Match's US plants, located in [[Owensboro, Kentucky]], was expanded to handle the manufacturing of Zyn pouches directly in the US.<ref name="richmond2">{{Cite web |author=John Reid Blackwell |date=2019-03-27 |title=Swedish Match starting nationwide rollout of tobacco-free nicotine pouch product |url=https://richmond.com/swedish-match-starting-nationwide-rollout-of-tobacco-free-nicotine-pouch-product/article_ec408cb1-586a-50da-8e26-31caf74bddf1.html |website=Richmond.com}}</ref><ref name="LaneReport2">{{Cite web |date=2017-08-31 |title=Swedish Match to invest $41 million in Owensboro operation creating 36 jobs |url=https://www.lanereport.com/80889/2017/08/swedish-match-to-invest-41-million-in-owensboro-operation-creating-36-jobs/ |website=Lane Report}}</ref> The works required an investment of $115 million and the new plant opened in May 2019.<ref name="OwensboroMay142">{{Cite web |author=Ashley Sorce |date=2019-05-14 |title=Swedish Match cuts ribbon on $115 million expansion of Owensboro-exclusive product line |url=https://www.owensborotimes.com/features/business/2019/05/swedish-match-cuts-ribbon-on-115-million-expansion-of-owensboro-exclusive-product-line/ |website=Owensboro Times}}</ref> By the end of 2018, Zyn pouches were available in about 13,500 stores in the United States<ref name="2018report">{{Cite web |date=2019 |title=Annual Report 2018 |url=https://www.swedishmatch.com/globalassets/reports/annual-reports/2018_swedishmatchannualreport_en.pdf |website=Swedish Match}}</ref> and by the end of 2020, they were available in about 100,000 US stores.<ref name="MoodieDavitt2">{{Cite web |author=Dermot Davitt |date=2021-11-18 |title=Swedish Match targets growth for nicotine pouch brand ZYN in Middle East |url=https://www.moodiedavittreport.com/swedish-match-targets-growth-for-nicotine-pouch-brand-zyn-in-middle-east/ |website=The Moodie Davitt Report}}</ref> Zyn pouches have also been distributed in other countries such as the [[United Kingdom|UK]],<ref name="2019report">{{Cite web |date=2020 |title=Annual Report 2019 |url=https://www.swedishmatch.com/globalassets/reports/annual-reports/2019_swedishmatchannualreport_interactive_en.pdf |website=Swedish Match}}</ref> [[Switzerland]],<ref>{{Cite web |author=Sarah Serafini |date=2022-05-13 |title=Snus ist in aller Munde – jetzt springt Philip Morris auf den Trend auf |url=https://www.watson.ch/schweiz/gesundheit/453688174-philip-morris-setzt-auf-snus-und-kauft-die-firma-swedish-match |website=watson.ch |language=de}}</ref> [[South Africa]] and [[Pakistan]].<ref name="2023Markets">{{Cite web |date=2024-04-04 |title=Nicotine Pouches:International |url=https://tobaccoinsider.com/nicotine-pouches-international/|website=Tobacco Insider}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2020-09-01 |title=Out of the Bag |url=https://tobaccoreporter.com/2020/09/01/out-of-the-bag/ |website=TobaccoReporter}}</ref> In November 2022, Swedish Match was acquired by [[Philip Morris International]].<ref name="Delist2" /> Zyn has been identified among the strategic brands acquired by the tobacco giant to achieve its vision of a "smoke-free future", alongside the company's existing portfolio of [[Iqos]] [[Heated tobacco product|heated tobacco]] and [[Veev]] [[vaping]] products.<ref name="FT20222" /> Previously, Philip Morris already had nicotine pouches in its product range through the Shiro brand, acquired by PMI in May 2021 with the purchase of the Danish company AG Snus.<ref name="TobaccoTacticsDef">{{cite web|title:Nicotine pouches|url=https://www.tobaccotactics.org/article/nicotine-pouches/|website:Tobacco Tactics}}</ref> Zyn pouches have experienced rapid growth in popularity among American consumers, especially from 2023 onwards.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-04-23 |title=Philip Morris Reports Soaring Sales of Zyn Nicotine Pouches |url=https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-earnings-04-23-2024/card/philip-morris-reports-soaring-sales-of-zyn-nicotine-pouches-O7xHxXH80nIleW29aNlY |website=[[The Wall Street Journal]]}}</ref> |
- Design
Minor fixes /updated reference / internationalization (smokeless and dipping tobacco are very US).
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References
Zyn pouches are sold in round cans containing 15 or 20 pouches depending on the market. Pouches are available in different levels of nicotine strength (such as 3 or 6 milligrams per pouch in the US) and different flavored and unflavored varieties.<ref name="richmond2" /> The pouches contain nicotine extracted from tobacco leaves, and food grade ingredients.<ref>{{Cite web |author=Rich Duprey |date=2019-08-26 |title=This Under-the-Radar Smoking Alternative Could Be Bigger Than E-Cigs |url=https://finance.yahoo.com/news/under-radar-smoking-alternative-could-142500126.html?guccounter=1 |website=Yahoo Finance}}</ref> The pouches themselves are made of plant fibers, which allow the nicotine to diffuse out of the pouch when moistened.<ref name="LesEchos2">{{Cite web |author=Clément Perruche |date=2022-05-09 |title=Tabac : Philip Morris sur le point de racheter le suédois Swedish Match AB |url=https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/conso-distribution/tabac-philip-morris-sur-le-point-de-racheter-le-suedois-swedish-match-ab-1405827 |website=Les Echos |language=fr}}</ref> They are designed to be placed between the user's upper lip and gum, or between the gum and cheek, and used for up to one hour.<ref>{{Cite web |author=Katie Kindelan |date=2024-01-31 |title=What to know about ZYN, the nicotine substitute going viral and facing scrutiny |url=https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/zyn-nicotine-substitute-viral-facing-scrutiny/story?id=106829784|website=[[ABC_News_(United_States)|ABC news]]}}</ref> |
- Sales (New section to be added after Design)
Updated numbers and references. The product has seen quite a significant growth since launch and this has been noted across media outlets, hence the dedicated section based off what was before in the history part. Again, this structure is copied from other articles elsewhere on this wiki (alternatively, the word Reception is also used quite often).
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References
According to Swedish Match, sales of Zyn in the US totaled 12.7 million cans in 2018 and 50.4 million in 2019.<ref name=2019report/> The company said in its annual report that 2018 was the first year it became profitable in the US in the snus and nicotine pouches segment.<ref name=2018report/> Sales of Zyn pouches have then grown rapidly and have contributed to a significant increase in Swedish Match's revenues from 2020 onwards.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/swedish-match-results-idINL5N2EN5GY |title=Swedish Match profit rise beats forecasts helped by ZYN sales |website=Reuters |date=2020-07-17}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/tobacco-nicotine-group-swedish-matchs-q3-profit-matches-expectations-2022-10-28/ |title=Swedish Match continues to see strong smoke-free sales growth |website=Reuters |date=2022-10-28}}</ref> The company sold nearly 130 million nicotine pouch cans in the US in 2020<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.swedishmatch.com/globalassets/reports/annual-reports/2020_swedishmatchannualreport_interactive_en.pdf |title=Annual Report 2020 |website=Swedish Match |date=2021}}</ref> and nearly 198 million in 2021.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://cspdailynews.com/tobacco/pmi-talks-acquire-swedish-match |title=PMI in Talks to Acquire Swedish Match |website=CSP Daily News |date=2022-05-09}}</ref> According to Philip Morris International, 384.8 million Zyn cans were sold worldwide in 2023, up 62% from 237 million cans in 2022.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.convenience.org/Media/Daily/2024/Feb/13/3-Smoke-Free-Products-40-2023-Revenue_CatMan |title=Smoke-Free Products Nearly 40% of 2023 Total Revenue for PMI |website=Convenience.org |date=2024-02-13}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-03-04 |title=Zyn Is the New Vaping |url=https://time.com/6836195/zyn-nicotine-pouches-popularity/ |access-date=2024-05-08 |website=[[Time (magazine)|TIME]] |language=en}}</ref> Between 2019 and 2022, Swedish Match had a market share of around 60% in nicotine pouches in the US with the Zyn brand.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9667333/ |title=Nicotine Pouch Sales Trends in the US by Volume and Nicotine Concentration Levels From 2019 to 2022 |website=National Library of Medecine |date=2022-11-15}}</ref><ref name="FT2022">{{Cite web |url=https://www.ft.com/content/a624ec6b-bc6a-4b51-9d09-e83a532c4ddf |title=Philip Morris wins Elliott's backing for $15.7bn Swedish Match takeover |website=Financial Times |date=2022-11-06}}</ref> From 2023, the brand's market share has grown to over 70%.<ref name="MarketBeat">{{Cite web |author=Pat Crawley |url=https://www.marketbeat.com/originals/philip-morris-steady-dividends-with-new-growth-levers/ |title=Philip Morris: Steady Dividends With New Growth Levers |website=MarketBeat |date=2023-03-06}}</ref> |
Thanks, Aphis Marta (talk) 09:24, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
- Please reconfigure this request in a way that the references can be readily accessed to check that they bear out the claims made in the edit request. Axad12 (talk) 16:14, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- I have added the references after each section. I've checked multiple times so hopefully there should not be any discrepancy. Aphis Marta (talk) 15:09, 23 October 2024 (UTC)