User talk:2A02:A45D:25BD:1:A41F:5237:61C0:C92E

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Happy editing! Pathworkzerone (talk) 14:01, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Hey, thanks man, sorry to keep doing this to you guys, I edit regularly but as IP, and my new modem has a dynamic IP thing which I can't figure out how to turn off. Either way, cheers for checking up that I'm not full of crap (well, at least as writing stuff on Wikipedia is concerned), Leo. 2A02:A45D:25BD:1:A41F:5237:61C0:C92E (talk) 14:05, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Quinoa

Hello. I saw your edits and have no objections. I do however have to comment on this edit summary in particular: Allopolyploids are not called hybrids. They are the result of a prior hybridisation event. I think you may have already understood that however since you said at one time. Invasive Spices (talk) 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi Invasive Spices, hmmm, it's somewhat semantics. In this case it is not clear to me if quinoa is a recent hybridisation which occurred in the course of its domestication, or a prior hybridisation producing a wild species, as it were, which was then domesticated in due course. From a horticulture standpoint, allopolyploids can indeed be considered hybrids: think Fragaria × ananassa or countless ornamentals. An additional thing which is unclear to me is the nature of the polyploidy in Chenopodium; if the hybrid is between two species with the same amount of chromosomes, no polyploidy is necessary to produce fertile offspring; aloes for example, almost all (1 odd exception) have the same number of chromosomes and can freely hybridize in nature (or at home). When chromosome numbers differ, the only usual method such a hybrid can become functionally reproductive is through a doubling of the chromosomes. This is a rare event, and such polyploids are generally better crops by virtue of being more robust and having larger seeds/fruits, and thus are generally recent hybrids which have been selected by farmers from their fields because of these traits. With Triticum it seems to have occurred more than once, both alloploidy and autoploidy. So in summary: yes, all alloploids were hybrids at one time, and the question of when that word should no longer apply to them is really a fuzzy matter of definition, no? 2A02:A45D:25BD:1:A41F:5237:61C0:C92E (talk) 18:54, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

I see. You understand perfectly well, merely using an abbreviated edit summary. As for myself I understood all the words you used and most of the ideas. (As for when to stop saying hybrid: Yes it is fuzzy. You prefer a much longer time than I do.) Invasive Spices (talk) 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, abbreviated edit summary= the whole history section of quinoa was simply somewhat garbled, not only that. The concept of a hybrid swarm rather negates the concept of a hybrid as a single event/individual. There's a certain group of allopolyploid orchids in Europe (Dactylorhiza) in which some appear to be in a continuous slow-burn state of hybridisation as new allopolyploids are created from the parent species, bizarrely, the hybridisation seems unequal, with the species (hybrid swarm) thus slowly hybridising its way from an allopolyploid to autopolyploid over the last 7,000-14,000 years or so (when glaciers melted in these areas). Weird stuff out there.

Saw you comment on Festuca perennis, I'll answer it, but repairing the problem is not simple. Cheers, Leo 2A02:A45D:25BD:1:A41F:5237:61C0:C92E (talk) 21:14, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

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