User talk:DB8187

June 2019

Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit you made to List of VFL/AFL premiers, did not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. 4TheWynne^{(talk)(contribs)} 13:49, 16 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

February 2020

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at VFL/AFL premiership and grand final statistics. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 23:20, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 2021

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates, or other materials from Wikipedia without adequate explanation, as you did at List of VFL/AFL premiers, you may be blocked from editing. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 13:12, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You need to check the official AFL statistics DB8187 (talk) 15:02, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, you need to understand that the Brisbane Bears and the Brisbane Lions are not the same club. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 05:47, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Actually they are. Do an ASIC search. This is why official AFL records show Brisbane Bears/Lions statistics on a single continuum and Fitzroy as seperate. I understand this may be difficult for someone your age who isn’t qualified to do anything other than work at Timezone to comprehend so a simple and easy way for you to understand the facts is to look at the statistics that are printed in the AFL Football Record. DB8187 (talk) 05:59, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Actually they aren't. Do a lot more than just an ASIC search. If "official AFL records" suggest that the Brisbane Bears and the Brisbane Lions are the same club, why don't you present them here or at WT:AFL? The club was formed as the result of a merger between the Bears and Fitzroy, and its full name is technically the Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club (hence "BBFFC" on the back of their guernseys), trading as the Lions. The Brisbane Bears and the Brisbane Lions are not the same club; Fitzroy and the Brisbane Lions are not the same club; the Brisbane Bears and Fitzroy are not the same club. We're talking about two separate entities that merged to create a new, third entity, not one club that folded while the other decided to take its colours and nickname. Aside from that, if you're going to go personal (clearly I'm dealing with someone who knows me in person), clearly you don't belong on Wikipedia. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 16:13, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OMG! You’re suggesting I should ignore the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (the independent fed gov body empowered to regulate companies) and focus on marketing material. LMFAO! This is a perfect example of why Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source of information. DB8187 (talk) 01:53, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I never went anywhere near suggesting you should ignore ASIC... just that you need to present a lot more, particularly in terms of sources, if you want to change what is a project-wide consensus. Where exactly did I say anything about marketing material? 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 04:02, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

1. What happened in 1996 is that the Brisbane Bears, commensurate with Section 6 the terms of the the Deed of Company Arrangements (‘Deed’) changed their name to the ‘Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club Limited’ and began trading as the ‘Brisbane Lions’. This change of company name was facilitated by a vote at a ‘general meeting’. I was at this meeting. Supporting this arrangement was Section 1 of the ‘Deed’ which defines the term “Merged Club” as meaning the ‘Brisbane Bears’. A copy of the ‘Deed of Company Arrangements’ can be obtained from the club. I also have one I can send you.

2. Every company in Australia is issued with an Australian Company Number (ACN) when registered. This number (ACN) must, by law, be displayed on all company documents. The Brisbane Lions ACN and ABN are: ACN: 054 263 473 ABN: 43 054 263 473 This is the same ACN as what the Brisbane Bears operated under. Note: ABN’s did not exist prior to the year 2000.

If, as you purport to be the case, the Brisbane Lions are a new company (Football Club) and not an extension of the Brisbane Bears then they would be required by law to have a new ACN. However, a review of club documents which are freely available on the club website proves that the Brisbane Lions operate under the same ACN as what the Bears operated under. Thus, the Brisbane Lions are legally an extension of the Brisbane Bears and not Fitzroy.

3. It’s quite clear that only one of us here has a law degree so please don’t continue to embarrass yourself by coming back to me and saying that I need more evidence. These are the legal documents that prove I am right. In fact, the only possible way you can prove me to be wrong is if you can prove that the Brisbane Bears and Fitzroy never actually signed the Deed of Company Arrangements (‘Deed’) dated 4 August 1996 and as such fraudulently obtained the ASIC certificate. If this was to have occurred it would constitute a criminal offence. A free copy of the ASIC certificate can be viewed here ➡️ https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/SearchRegisters.jspx?_adf.ctrl-state=orgnloxn_12 DB8187 (talk) 08:03, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's all well and fine, but you're still missing my overall point: you need to present this at WT:AFL if you want to change the consensus – simply changing a single mention in one page isn't going to get you anywhere. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 02:56, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]