User talk:Flatlemon

September 2022

You have been blocked from editing from certain pages (Marie Bashkirtseff) for a period of 1 month for disruptive editing. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} If you reply here, please ping me by using {{re|Ks0stm}} in your reply. 15:35, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Ks0stm: Could you please explain your decision? I'm baffled. Have you seen the history of edits made by Ушкуйник? The user has been subject to numerous warnings through the years for their disruptive editing of content that relates to historical figures of Ukrainian origin. They keep removing references to Ukraine and Ukrainian heritage of artists, writers, and political figures from their biographies, citing questionable reasons and sources (one example is encyclopedia.com which inaccurately states that Bashkirtseff was born outside of "Kiev" when in fact she was born outside of Poltava).

How do I get help here? Could you explain? I'm not a professional Wikipedia editor - hence my lack of contribution history. I'm currently researching Bashkirtseff's life, and I noticed Ушкуйник's disruptive activity on her page. I wasn't the only one to point it out and to try and reverse their edits. What exactly am I getting blocked for? And why doesn't Ушкуйник get the same treatment? Given Ушкуйник's disruptive history on Wikipedia, I'm urging you to reconsider.

To address the "controversy", Marie Bashkirtseff was born in Poltava oblast, in the heart of Ukraine which yes, back then was part of the Russian Empire and was referred to as Little Russia. Today, Bashkirtseff is celebrated as a Ukrainian artist by scholars and art institutions around the world (here are some links: https://www.clarkart.edu/microsites/women-artists-in-paris/about-the-artists/marie-bashkirtseff, https://www.academia.edu/25715232/MARIE_BASHKIRTSEFF_Ukraines_cultural_ambassador_to_nineteenth_century_France_Cultural_Diplomacy_feature_Business_Ukraine_Magazine_March_2016_). She spent most of her life in Europe, but part of her family lived always on the territory of Ukraine, and Bashkirtseff visited Kharkiv, Kyiv, and Gavrontzi often. Flatlemon (talk) 16:01, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Flatlemon (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I've been blocked from editing (Marie Bashkirtseff) for "disruptive editing". Here is the definition of disruptive editing:

"Disruptive editing is a pattern of editing that may extend over a long time on many articles and disrupts progress toward improving an article or building the encyclopedia."

Here is why I'm confused about being blocked. I've not "disrupted progress toward improving an article". I'm not a regular Wikipedia editor - hence my lack of contribution history that a user who called for blocking me pointed to. I'm an art enthusiast currently researching Marie Bashkirtseff. During my research, I noticed the user Ушкуйник's disruptive activity on Marie Bashkirtseff page. Over a long period of time, the user has repeatedly reversed or erased edits that point to Bashkirtseff's Ukrainian heritage.

Unlike me, Ушкуйник has been subject to numerous warnings for their disruptive editing of content that relates to historical figures of Ukrainian origin. They keep removing references to Ukraine and Ukrainian heritage of artists, writers, and political figures from their biographies, citing questionable reasons and sources (one example is encyclopedia.com which inaccurately states that Bashkirtseff was born outside of "Kiev" when in fact she was born outside of Poltava).

I wasn't the only one to try and reverse Ушкуйник's false edits. The page's history proves that.

So I'm baffled. What exactly am I getting blocked for? For trying to speak the truth?

To address the "factual controversy" that several users, including Ушкуйник, are manipulating to push their agenda, Marie Bashkirtseff was born in Gavrontzi, which is in Poltava oblast, which is literally in the heart of Ukraine. And yes, back then it was known as part of the Russian Empire. Because Ukraine was occupied, Ukrainian language banned (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ems_Ukaz or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Ukraine).

Today, Bashkirtseff is celebrated as a Ukrainian artist by scholars and art institutions around the world (here are some links: https://www.clarkart.edu/microsites/women-artists-in-paris/about-the-artists/marie-bashkirtseff, https://www.academia.edu/25715232/MARIE_BASHKIRTSEFF_Ukraines_cultural_ambassador_to_nineteenth_century_France_Cultural_Diplomacy_feature_Business_Ukraine_Magazine_March_2016_).

Flatlemon (talk) 21:55, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

This isn't really the time or place to argue your side of a content dispute. You weren't blocked for being wrong. You called another editor a "Russian bot", edit warred, and removed citations simply because you disagreed with them. Special:Diff/1110446151 is known as "righting great wrongs". Sometimes content on Wikipedia is wrong and needs to be changed, though. Although you can't edit the article directly, you can post this evidence for your side in the content dispute on the article's talk page. If you can't find consensus for your desired edit, you can try other forms of dispute resolution. Calling people "Russian bots" is not civil, and it won't get you what you want. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:57, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Note: user is still attempting to push POV in other articles.[1][2] -Mellk (talk) 22:07, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mellk How is Dnipro river being spelled correctly a... POV? Genuinely curious :) Please, explain. Flatlemon (talk) 22:19, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The article is Dnieper, not Dnipro, as already mentioned. Mellk (talk) 22:21, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mellk The article where you corrected the spelling is about Dnipropetrovsk Oblast which is in Ukraine. The river is called Dnipro in Ukraine, because in Ukraine the official language is Ukrainian. Since the article is related to the geography of Ukraine - not Russia - it is therefore you pushing your POV. Not the other way around :) Flatlemon (talk) 22:26, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is English Wikipedia. What the official language is in Ukraine is irrelevant because we follow WP:COMMONNAME, which is why the article on the river is called Dnieper. And what does Russia have to do with it? It is not being spelled as Dnepr. Mellk (talk) 22:30, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mellk Oh, no, I don't seem to see the word Dnieper anywhere on this list you shared! But thank you for the link though. As far as I can tell, Dnipro corresponds to the listed criteria of Recognizability, Naturalness, Precision, Concision, Consistency. Seems like even BBC is using the word Dnipro now - see here https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62738160. Oops. So perhaps, both words could be used, as it's indeed a matter of POV? And of course Russia has nothing to do with this, or you. No worries :) Flatlemon (talk) 22:42, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It clearly says it is a list of examples, you're kidding right? Cherrypicking one source means nothing. You can try a WP:RM for the article Dnieper but it will be quickly rejected. Mellk (talk) 22:50, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]