User talk:Geschichtliches

News on church

I am not sure that what I tried to send to you went actually went off. I, therefore try from this spot.

Hello, re: Friedenskirche Johannesburg Wikipedia Stub I have been discussing the Friedenskirche entry in Joburgpedia with Theresa Hulme of Wikimeadia. Herewith my latest email to her pertaining to the subject matter.

  I'm happy to hear that you are going to sort out the Wiki article. I did look at the possibility of editing it myself. But I am so much overwhelmed by Wiki's mountain of rules, regulations and procedures that I daren't tackle the task.
  However, before you do it I wish to point out to you that the tale of the A-frame structure isn't the only un- or half-truth in that stub. I shall go over it with you.

Note: my remarks are placed in parentheses - »...«

The Friedenskirche Lutheran church in Hillbrow, Johannesburg is a declared South African national monument,[1] designed by Theophile Schaerer and built in 1912 from stone[2] to serve a congregation founded in 1888.[3] History

The congregation came together in 1888 because a Lutheran missionary wanted to hold a memorial service for the German emperor Kaiser Wilhelm I who had died on 9 March 1888. He found that there were other Lutherans in the area

»The Missionary, Hermann Kuschke, of the Berlin Mission Society ministered to the local Germans already before that time, holding services in the Mission Church in Marshall Street.« and a simple "A" framed building was constructed »[dealt with already]« to be their Lutheran church. The church flourished and in 1912 Theophile Schaerer revealed his design for a church based on wood and sandstone.[4] Theo was a Swiss born architect who lived in Hillbrow.[5]

The church stood alone although there was at one time a house for the pastor and a small German school on the site. »When the church was built in 1912 the area was quite built up. The 'house for the Pastor' stood the ravages of time until it was pulled down in 1975. [talk is here of the first parsonage built in 1897. Two more were to follow in time - 1936 and 1954.] The 'small' German School had 500 odd pupils when it moved to Parktown West in 1969.«

The whole of the building was refurbished in 1956. Inside the church has plaster walls »[not only]« with wooden beams and balcony, an organ and wooden pews.[4]

Today the church is surrounded by taller buildings and the pastor's house is a music centre »definitely not the first manse - it was pulled down in 1975.« and the school is now a theatre.[4] »No, it's not - the school was pulled down in 1975. Truth is that on the site of the old school there are several facilities now - inter alia a theatre.«

The church and its Bavarian style tower »laughable - the writer had better take a look at a so-called Bavarian church tower and then compare it to the Friedenskirche tower.« is still an important local landmark and it was declared a National Monument in 1986.[6]

»It is evident that the writer's references came from unreliable sources.«

Now, how can one edit that? A new stub should be drawn up. Can that be done under Wiki's rules? I had something like this in mind:

»The 'Friedenskirche' or 'Church of Peace' of the Evangelical Lutheran Congregation Johannesburg', designed by the Swiss-born architect Theophile Schaerer, was built in 1912 and declared a National Monument in 1986.1) The congregation was formed in 1888 after a memorial service had been held by the local missionary, Hermann Kuschke on the 20th of March for the German Emperor, Wilhelm I, who had died on the 9th inst.2) Two years later the congregation had acquired a stand and built a small church.3) In 1912, after prolonged negotiations for a suitable site and when sufficient funds had finally been secured, the present church was built.4) At that time its position on a rocky prominence, high above the street and the surrounding single and double storey dwellings, made it a striking landmark. A distinction it hasn't quite lost yet in spite of the high-rise buildings surrounding it.

References 1) Friedenskirche, Twist Street, Hillbrow, Johannesburg (SAHRA website) 2) Hermann Kuschke, Die Anfänge der Deutschen Schule in Johannesburg, Die Brücke, p. 13, 1964. 3) Carl Müller & Wolfgang Diekmann, Hundert Jahre Deutsche Evangelisch-Lutherische Gemeinde Johannesburg, p. 12, 1988. 4) Minutes of Meetings, Deutsche Evangelische Gemeinde zu Johannesburg, pp. 129 et al, 1890 - 1913.«

41.13.78.45 (talk) 22:41, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome!

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or click here to ask for help here on your talk page and a volunteer will visit you here shortly. Again, welcome! Victuallers (talk) 10:38, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, re: Friedenskirche Johannesburg Wikipedia Stub I have been discussing the Friedenskirche entry in Joburgpedia with Theresa Hulme of Wikimeadia. Herewith my latest email to her pertaining to the subject matter.

   I'm happy to hear that you are going to sort out the Wiki article. I did look at the possibility of editing it myself. But I am so much overwhelmed by Wiki's mountain of rules, regulations and procedures that I daren't tackle the task.
   However, before you do it I wish to point out to you that the tale of the A-frame structure isn't the only un- or half-truth in that stub. I shall go over it with you.

Note: my remarks are placed in parentheses - »...«

The Friedenskirche Lutheran church in Hillbrow, Johannesburg is a declared South African national monument,[1] designed by Theophile Schaerer and built in 1912 from stone[2] to serve a congregation founded in 1888.[3] History

The congregation came together in 1888 because a Lutheran missionary wanted to hold a memorial service for the German emperor Kaiser Wilhelm I who had died on 9 March 1888. He found that there were other Lutherans in the area

»The Missionary, Hermann Kuschke, of the Berlin Mission Society ministered to the local Germans already before that time, holding services in the Mission Church in Marshall Street.« and a simple "A" framed building was constructed »[dealt with already]« to be their Lutheran church. The church flourished and in 1912 Theophile Schaerer revealed his design for a church based on wood and sandstone.[4] Theo was a Swiss born architect who lived in Hillbrow.[5]

The church stood alone although there was at one time a house for the pastor and a small German school on the site. »When the church was built in 1912 the area was quite built up. The 'house for the Pastor' stood the ravages of time until it was pulled down in 1975. [talk is here of the first parsonage built in 1897. Two more were to follow in time - 1936 and 1954.] The 'small' German School had 500 odd pupils when it moved to Parktown West in 1969.«

The whole of the building was refurbished in 1956. Inside the church has plaster walls »[not only]« with wooden beams and balcony, an organ and wooden pews.[4]

Today the church is surrounded by taller buildings and the pastor's house is a music centre »definitely not the first manse - it was pulled down in 1975.« and the school is now a theatre.[4] »No, it's not - the school was pulled down in 1975. Truth is that on the site of the old school there are several facilities now - inter alia a theatre.«

The church and its Bavarian style tower »laughable - the writer had better take a look at a so-called Bavarian church tower and then compare it to the Friedenskirche tower.« is still an important local landmark and it was declared a National Monument in 1986.[6]

»It is evident that the writer's references came from unreliable sources.«

Now, how can one edit that? A new stub should be drawn up. Can that be done under Wiki's rules? I had something like this in mind:

»The 'Friedenskirche' or 'Church of Peace' of the Evangelical Lutheran Congregation Johannesburg', designed by the Swiss-born architect Theophile Schaerer, was built in 1912 and declared a National Monument in 1986.1) The congregation was formed in 1888 after a memorial service had been held by the local missionary, Hermann Kuschke on the 20th of March for the German Emperor, Wilhelm I, who had died on the 9th inst.2) Two years later the congregation had acquired a stand and built a small church.3) In 1912, after prolonged negotiations for a suitable site and when sufficient funds had finally been secured, the present church was built.4) At that time its position on a rocky prominence, high above the street and the surrounding single and double storey dwellings, made it a striking landmark. A distinction it hasn't quite lost yet in spite of the high-rise buildings surrounding it.

References 1) Friedenskirche, Twist Street, Hillbrow, Johannesburg (SAHRA website) 2) Hermann Kuschke, Die Anfänge der Deutschen Schule in Johannesburg, Die Brücke, p. 13, 1964. 3) Carl Müller & Wolfgang Diekmann, Hundert Jahre Deutsche Evangelisch-Lutherische Gemeinde Johannesburg, p. 12, 1988. 4) Minutes of Meetings, Deutsche Evangelische Gemeinde zu Johannesburg, pp. 129 et al, 1890 - 1913.«