User talk:GourangaUK/Archive 7

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Sankirtan Movement.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Sankirtan Movement.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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An acknowledgment

		Original Barnstar
		A humble award for your tireless efforts to improve Hinduism related content on wikipedia, and protect it from vandals and POV warriors. It is always a pleasure to interact and collaborate with you. Abecedare (talk) 07:24, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't believe I haven't acknowledged your efforts till date! I hope you appreciate the iconography. Regards. Abecedare (talk) 07:24, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am glad to get your spirits up! Among the various editors I interacted with when I first stared editing here in 2006, I see only DaGizza, Priyananth and you still around reverting vandalism/misguided edits and adding quality content. I hope your efforts will continue and, even more importantly, that you'll continue to derive pleasure from the process. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 04:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Undid your potentially libellous material insertion

Please note that it is the policy that editors must take particular care adding biographical material about a living person to any Wikipedia page. Such material requires a high degree of sensitivity, and must adhere strictly to the law in Florida, United States and to our content policies.WP:LIVING

Please note that you can not add such unverifiable material from your or someone elses own blog or blogsite to the page of LP ether. Besides it should be ALSO comply with this policy: The views of critics should be represented if they are relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to side with the critics; rather, it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone. WP:LIVING

Probably most important rule is: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. An important rule of thumb when writing biographical material about living persons is "do no harm".WP:LIVING

Your insertion/revertion was not in encyclopedic tone and did not place any reliable sourse in the text. Dipika site or any site is not a reliable source for such a content. Please also see:WP:LIBEL - all contributors should recognize that it is their responsibility to ensure that material posted on Wikipedia is not defamatory.

I appreciate your understanding. Wikidas (talk) 09:30, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rasa-Lila

Can we work on this lead sentence?

"The Rasa lila or Rasa dance is a dance included in the traditional story of Krishna, as described in the religious texts of Hinduism."

I had "The Rasa-lila, also known as the “rasa dance” and as the “Dance of Love”, is a pastime of Krishna..."

I like using the news style, based on the way I read stuff on the Internet- I skim and I rarely read articles all the way through.

But really, based on this, I think that we should change the first sentence. We're looking for "the shortest possible relevant characterization of the subject." In my opinion, "pastime of Krishna" is this. That is what it is. If you don't know what a pastime is, you can't understand what it is. It's like "The Ford Thunderbird is a car manufactured in the United States by the Ford Motor Company.", "The Rasa-lila is a pastime of Krishna." It is not fundamentally a dance, it is fundamentally a pastime. And I'm not just speaking from and ISKCON perspective, am I? And all of this kowtowing to "Krishna is a mythological figure in stories". I'm not saying he isn't. What I'm saying is that we don't need to bend our backs saying again and again that it is a story only. I think it's fine to say that it's a pastime, because if you don't think pastimes are real then you don't have to believe it's real, but you do have to believe that it's a pastime. Do you agree with this? All I'm saying is that "pastime" is a more specific, descriptive word for what the rasa-lila is considered to be than "dance" or "story". And that's how WP is cool, you know, you say "Hmm, it's a pastime? Hmm, what's a pastime? Oh, that's what a pastime is". It's like the article for some sports car should say "the such-and-so car is a sports car" rather than "the such-and-so car is a vehicle." It's just more precise than "dance" or "story"- it doesn't make it opinionated, does it? But really, I don't know why I'm writing this, if I were you I don't think I'd change my opinion because somebody wrote this, so I am also going to go do something else.

Also, for the same reason that is better to be more defined, as defined as possible, "Bhagavat purana and gita-govinda" is better than "the religious texts of Hinduism" . (Did you notice that I didn't put "Srimad Bhagavatam"? Hahaha, I know how to behave in the material word of WP, hahaha.) Ys, David G Brault (talk) 21:50, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The SB quote is actually found at the end of the chapter on Rasa-lila- it is in reference to it. Ys, David G Brault (talk) 02:42, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose you're right, and there was no reason for it to be there. So, according to Prabhupad you can put on a performance of pastimes like in Ramayana performances- but then you can't even think or dream about imitating pastimes. It is a little confusing to me and I interpreted it that performing it was bad when I read the chapter on Rasa-Lila in the Krishna book, but now I realize that Prabhupad is OK with putting on the Ramayana and stuff, but it seems that that would be thinking about imitating it. Do you know the significance of the term "imitating" to Prabhupad? Ys, David G Brault (talk) 18:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vaishnavism wikiproject

Hello GourangaUk. There is now a Vaishnava project located at Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism/Vaishnavism, a project for edifying Vaishnava related articles. Also, there is now a talk page for Vaishnava related discussions located at, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hinduism/Vaishnavism. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 02:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vaishnavism's relation to Vedic religion

Hello GourangaUK. I have added this discussion to the Vaishnavism Wikiproject talk page at, Vaishnavism's relation to Vedic religion. Please feel free to add any comments. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 16:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Paramhamsa

Thanks for the edt. I merge this article with the old article Paramhansa. Juthani1 (talk) 00:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Articles related to Hinduism

Shri Gouranga Guruji, I have posted two articles on wiki - one on Govardhan sila and another on Banalinga.They are not yet categorised under Hinduism.You may like to review them in view of your deep interest and editing skills on such subjects. Regards--Nvvchar (talk) 05:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Krishna article and avatar discussion

Hello GourangaUK. There is a discussion on Krishna's status as avatar at Krishna and Vishnu avatar discussion. Any comments you have would be appreciated. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 20:16, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

View AfD - Articles for deletion/Sacinandana Swami (2nd nomination))

GourangaUK, Please note that the discussion you were taking part in is being reopened with a veiw for deletion of article Sacinandana Swami as a possible result of the 2nd Nomination. Wikidās ॐ 20:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New Articles

GourangaUK, after the recent Afd discussions on ISKCON leaders, I must admit to you that I was wrong concerning the articles Sacinandana Swami and Indradyumna Swami. If there are any related articles that you feel need to be created, please let me know and I will work with you. I have already began work on an ISKCON article, Gour Govinda Swami‎. Again I apologise for being wrong on the above two articles, please let me know if I can be of any help. I am not anti-ISKCON, so please let me know of any areas that I may help with or new articles that need to be made. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 06:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vaisnava-Sahajiya and Vaishnavism

Please note the discussion on Vaisnava-Sahajiya and Vaishnavism, per Sri Ramananda Raya article. The discussion is located at, Vaisnava-Sahajiya and Vaishnavism. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 21:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gouranga

There has been a lot of debate on Talk:Krishna about the extent to which Gaudiya Vaishnava views should in the article. One of the editors followed my suggestion to create a new page on Krishna from the Gaudiya perspective (similar to Ganesha outside Hinduism, Buddha in Hinduism and Jesus in Islam) called Svayam bhagavan but the article still may not adhere to WP:NPOV. Since you are knowledgeable in this area, if you have the time I hope you can keep an eye on both the Krishna and SB articles. Thanks Gizza^Discuss ^© 02:25, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation to be an editor on a new project

Since its just at the begging stage, please voice your opinion or put yourself on the list of editors here. Thanks, Wikidās ॐ 18:31, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free media (Image:MahaVishnu.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:MahaVishnu.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 12:05, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:BGita As It Is.jpg

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Gouranga please look

Gouranga you may be interested in the new project WP:KRISHNA also I thought you may want to check the proposal of merger and cast your vote in relation of the additional section to article Krishna. Thanks. --Wikidās -ॐ 14:41, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scope, update and voting

Whats new at Krishna's project

Wikipedia:WikiProject Krishnaism - whats new and happening!

Discussion on the scope of the project: Krishna-worship.
First DYK of he project Radha Ramana 22nd May 2008
Pages under construction Radha Krishna, Bala Krishna, Krishnaism.
Consensus is now reached on the proposal of merger of the new article Krishna Vasudeva into a separate section of Krishna here:

Please note the results of the vote on the proposal of merging new article on early worship of Krishna Vasudeva to the main article dedicated to the Hindu deity Krishna.

Krishna Vasudeva may have been worshiped in 4 century BC as a monotheistic deity.
This article is to be incorporated in a separate section of Krishna article.
Also, if you are ready to help with editing and assessment of the scope, please see the project page, and add your name to the list of participants.

While the name of the project is WikiProject Krishnaism in common language many seems to prefer a wider term "Vaishnavism", which however appeared to relate to Vishnu. Krishnaism is more of an academic term. On the other hand even one of the first Indologists to use the term, Albrecht Weber was to consider that that the essence of Krishnaism, bhakti or the principle of "God is love", was pre-Christian. There were and are many traditions where Krishna is worshiped and His names revered.

There was a discussion (and a heated one) on the scope of the project and the term here. Currently the scope is quite wide and aims at improving articles related to Radha-Krishna and associated traditions where they are worshiped: Manipuri Vaishnavas, Bhagavata, Gaudiya Vaishnava, Nimbarka sampradaya, Swaminarayana sampradaya, Vallabha sampradaya; If you see a need to widen or restrict the scope please voice your opinion - it is wanted!

Just leave a few words here.

Prabhupada article - call for copyedit

Since the article has stabilised and I have added proper references as well as provided a NPOVs references, I suggest final edits by the editors who were contributing to the article. Following the general proofing and copyedit, I would suggest nominating it towards GA (Good Article). Wikidās -ॐ 14:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Clean up

This article needs major help- Rama Navami Can you help? Juthani1 ^tcs 18:19, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Transmigration and Krishna

I defined it as correctly as I remembered. Long ago I was very interested in Origen and what he meant by "transmigration of the soul". I received help from an Origen scholar at the Catholic University of America. Kazuba (talk) 01:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see you have an interest in Krishna. I enjoy seeking the first version of heroic tales. Just because they are the earliest version does not mean they are true. You are probably familiar with the textual evidence that indicates the Gospel of Mark is the earliest surviving text that tells of Jesus' life. The other gospels expand and modify the story making it more grandiose and in line with later Christian theology. Supposedly the Gospel of Mark was not warmly received in Rome and almost disappeared. The Legend of Krishna by Nigel Frith presents the early (earliest?) version of the life of Krishna. It is rough, erotic, and delightful. I have read it many times when I get the blues. It always cheers me up. Frith is a master story teller. His goal is to entrance the reader like the oral story tellers of old. Be warned this is not the glorified politically correct Krishna of the passing years and today. Some people find the early (earliest?) version disgusting. Frith lovingly dedicates this passionate love story to his parents. Willing to take a chance? Kazuba (talk) 12:53,

The Other amazon review- Sharp was unprepared for the eroticism of India. Obviously Sharp had never met and talked with an educated person from India. Why the hell would you want to do that? Learn something first hand from a distant culture? I was delighted with what I learned from my Singh, Hindu and (even a Zoroastrian!) friends.

3 July 2008 (UTC) A Mockery of the worst kind, December 5, 2000 By Cie S Sharp

Basically, Frith took the 10th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam and turned into a childish fairy tell. He places many limitations on Krishna, saying the reason he didn't know he was a "god" (more like "The" God) because a demigod slipped him a memory altering potion. No. Krishna did not know He was God because he willingly placed himself under the potency of Yogamaya to enjoy his childhood Pastimes, no other reason. They try to make this into a stupid legend like Hercules. Imagine if Nigel Frith wrote a book "The Legend of Jesus" where the only reason why he was raising people from the dead was because one of his Jewish friends slipped him a magical potion. Would this not be a travesty? This is no different. (I wonder if Sharp ever read the Gospel of Mark? Only Mark counts the possessed swine; there are about TWO THOUSAND of these porkies possessed by the demons from ONE person! Wow! Mark 5:13)

In addition, in the end of the book, it portrays Krishna as engaging in activities -- that were VERY inappropriate. Like Frith wanted to write a porn story or something. I found this extremely inappropriate! Frith totally fabricated some of these stories and activities of Krishna, and as such, has created great offense to Vaishnavas everywhere. The only pro is that this book is out of print. Well, so it goes... [1] Kazuba (talk) 00:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of Hayagriva Swami

I just created a page for Hayagriva Swami (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayagriva_Swami) and within minutes it has been nominated for deletion. Would you kindly look at it and if you think it has some value say something on the talk page? Henrydoktorski (talk) 14:15, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Geeta

Did anyone gather some courage to criticise Geeta yet? The retrospection upon which Hinduism rests should not be allowed die making it anyother religion. Think about it and let us be open tp criticism and use it as an oppurunity to clarify and accept some short comings if any. ~rAGU (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 21:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC).[reply]