User talk:Lenovya

November 2024

Read the rules of Wikipedia, starting from WP:CONACHIEVE and WP:CIVIL. Don't call edits vandalizm as you did here 1. You add a new information, your edit was removed to restore consensus-version and it's you who are to prove that your edits should remain. --Devlet Geray (talk) 18:33, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

@Devlet Geray Hello, I was not being uncivil. I would say you were by being sarcastic with your edit summary. The information is not new. If you check the article, it talks of millions being enslaved from different regions, and I gave an example in my edit summary. These claims are sourced, so what exactly do you want me to prove again? Lenovya (talk) 18:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Hello, 1) how many millions - again is it 150 million? I see the article claims up to one million from Polish-Lituanian Commonwealth and up to 2 million from all places (so it's not "millions" as you call it) — hundreds of thousands would be more precise way to describe this figure, as millions may go from 2 million up to 999 milion. 2) if you mention a figure, then according to whom? as i have estimates saying that there were hundrends of thousands and as I see it is a consensus version of the article --Devlet Geray (talk) 18:43, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Devlet Geray I understand the point you bring up, but there is no WP rule to give an exact figure – unless I'm not aware of it, in which case I would like you to provide it for me. An exact figure also is pretty much impossible since countless raids occurred. However, sources provided in the article are clear that millions have been enslaved in a relatively short period of time in some regions pillaged by the Tatars; so it is definitely more than "hundreds of thousands".

  The 2 million number is not the total amount enslaved by the Tatars in history. It is for a set period (1468–1694, a time of 226 years) and only accounts for Russians, Ukrainians, and Poles. Lenovya (talk) 18:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  It is not you who should somehow add different estimates together, project these estimates on different territories, different periods and make your own predictions on how big that number should be. I would also remind you that there were no Raids of Crimean Khanate agaist Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth after Treaty of Karlowitz, that's why the given estimate is for a set period Devlet Geray (talk) 18:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Devlet Geray I'm unsure of what exactly you're trying to say here, but the sources are clear that millions have been enslaved. The total exact number is impossible to provide, but the article provides some particular information on the millions enslaved in specific regions on top of the one I already provided (e.g. "The largest captures of slaves occurred in the Dnieper, Podolia, Volhynia, and Galicia regions, with more than a million people taken from these lands between 1500 and 1644"). Lenovya (talk) 18:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  There is also such a phrase estimates that 150,000 to 200,000 people were abducted from Russia in the first half of the 17th-century Devlet Geray (talk) 19:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Devlet Geray Sure, that is for a smaller time-period (first half of the 17th century, so 1600-1650) and only accounts for Russia.

  When we look at longer time-periods and across multiple countries, we can already see millions have been enslaved. Lenovya (talk) 19:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Source for millions? Are sources unanimous in this opinion, or are there different assessments? Devlet Geray (talk) 19:07, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Devlet Geray

  Here are some I found with a short search;

  The Crimeans reportedly took 40,000 captives in Volhynia, Podolia, and Galicia in 1676, and Bohdan Baranowski has estimated that an average of 20,000 Poles were captured each year, with total losses for the period 1500-1644 numbering about a million. p. 25.

  Taking into consideration those slaves who perished while being transported, other scholars estimate the population losses to Poland- Lithuania and Muscovy from slave trading at 2 million people in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. p. 112.

  Fisher estimates that in the sixteenth century Poland lost around 20,000 individuals a year and that from 1474 to 1694, as many as a million Poles were carried off into Crimean slavery. p. 27. Lenovya (talk) 19:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

for you! LGT55 (talk) 16:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Infobox

Please read WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE before making further reverts on Northwestern Syria offensive (2024). Infobox is not the place to add new material to the article. It's meant to serve a supportive role summarizing what the article is about. It is also not the place to add disputed claims, or edit war.

Also, quoting your edit summary "this must remain until it is completely proven that there is no Turkish involvement". Something must be proven first if it is to be included. Not unproven to be removed. Wikipedia is an encylopedia, not a forum. Ecrusized (talk) 09:48, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

@Ecrusized Can you show me which WP guideline or policy states that you cannot include (official) claims of involvement of a party in a conflict in the infobox? Would be helpful. Lenovya (talk) 09:54, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

It's just a user opted policy of making quality edits and not adding unreliable or unconfirmed material to Wikipedia. There is also WP:ALLEGED and WP:CLAIM. Which states that supposed, alleged, claimed and other loaded words should be entirely avoided. I personally always try to avoid the term "claim" on Wikipedia and I've been editing for nearly a decade. I see that you're new here, and its best to not to engage in WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour while there is so much to learn. I didn't know everything I do today about Wikipedia when I first started editing either. Ecrusized (talk) 10:01, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

December 2024

Please do not create, maintain or restore hoaxes on Wikipedia, as you did at Military Frontier. If you are interested to know how accurate Wikipedia is, a more constructive test method would be to try to find inaccurate statements already in Wikipedia – and, if possible, correct them. Please do not disrupt Wikipedia. Continued disruption will be met with sanctions, which could include a block from editing. Feel free to take a look at the five pillars of Wikipedia to learn more about this project and how you can contribute constructively. Thank you. Joy (talk) 19:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

@Joy What hoax are you on about? It's a direct quote from the source. The full text is:

"Even though the Hungarian defence system constituted only a section of the long and varied frontier zone [referring to the Military Frontier] which stretched from Northern Africa via the Mediterranean islands, Italy, and Hungary to the Polish-Lithuanian and Russian territories and protected Europe against the Ottoman attacks, it is evident that the decisive events of the century long Ottoman-Habsburg confrontation occurred on the territory of Medieval Hungary." Géza Pálffy, p. 3.

So how exactly is it a "hoax" again? Lenovya (talk) 19:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

The scope of the article should be very obvious already - it does not include whatever frontier zone that is generally talked about in the overarching context of Ottoman wars in Europe, it's about a specific, reasonably-well defined concept. If you can't recognize how wildly off-topic this edit was in the lead section of this article, well, I'm sorry, that's just absurd on the face of it. --Joy (talk) 20:21, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi Lenovya. Thank you for your work on Battle of Iași. Another editor, North8000, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Nice work

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|North8000}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

North8000 (talk) 21:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

@North8000 Thanks a lot! Lenovya (talk) 08:43, 7 December 2024 (UTC)