User talk:Mr.hmm

Welcome to my talk page!

Please see Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines before leaving your comments. Previous talk page cleared because of many sock-puppet accounts not following the Guidelines--Mr.hmm (talk) 20:28, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Talk below this line

Hey, "The-Me" here who you called "sock puppet" account about 4 years ago. Hard to believe, I'm not. I'm just one of those guys who are not really active on Wikipedia, and who's trying to contribute on a VERY SMALL scale on issues which catch my eye. Uncool move btw, your communication style is really not very likeable. And FYI, I'll neither watch this page nor is it likely that I ever read a response should you write one - as you correctly observed I am not very active. Cheers. --The-Me (talk) 22:38, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I do not understand why you removed the references to OPNSense which was added. This is against Wiki Guidelines on Content removal. I am undoing your changes — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hagennos (talk • contribs) 15:41, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Another sock account from OPNsense abusing Wikipedia? Continue and you will be reported. --Mr.hmm (talk) 18:40, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing.

It is noticed that your account has been continuously removing content referencing to OPNSense. This is against Wiki policy and stating that all accounts are sock-puppet and clearing your talk page itself is an abuse of Wikipedia guidelines.

I have again reverted your edits to the Comparison of Firewalls and request you to have a full discussion before reverting edits.

Hagennos (talk) 20:34, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

I suggest you stop. You won't be the first OPNsense promoter who was stopped and removed from Wikipedia. Do not abuse Wikipedia, this is not your personal website!--Mr.hmm (talk) 23:16, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Mr.hmm. I too have the same opinion that Wikipedia is not a personal website where your views can be enforced. Also Wikipedia is not a place to threaten to get someone who does not agree with your viewpoint.

I am again reverting your changes to the page

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you disrupt Wikipedia.

Hagennos (talk) 00:38, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

I see you are learning how to use wikipedia. Still, what you're doing is a abuse. Playing reverse psychology will not help you. Stop abusing Wikipedia!--Mr.hmm (talk) 01:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

As a requirement for notification, you are being discussed, as your only edits show a significant bias for pfsense and against OPNSense, countering neutrality on the pages that you edit. ==Notice of Conflict of interest noticeboard discussion==

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard regarding a possible conflict of interest incident with which you may be involved. Thank you. ComputerRick (talk) 02:52, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Of course, brand new Wikipedia account reporting me? You're a bit obvious.--Mr.hmm (talk) 11:13, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

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This is now fixed.--Mr.hmm (talk) 21:13, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

COIN follow up

This is a followup to my comment here.

I work on conflict of interest issues here in Wikipedia, along with my regular editing. Most of your edits to date are promotional with regard to Rubicon Communications, LLC (Netgate) and its product PfSense and attacking its real world rival, Deciso and its product, OPNsense. I'm giving you notice of our Conflict of Interest guideline and Terms of Use, and will have some comments and requests for you below.

Hello, Mr.hmm. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. Editing for the purpose of advertising or promotion is not permitted. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

• avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, company, organization or competitors;
• propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (see the {{request edit}} template);
• disclose your COI when discussing affected articles (see WP:DISCLOSE);
• avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see WP:SPAM);
• do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).

Also please note that editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you.

Comments and requests

Wikipedia is a widely-used reference work and managing conflict of interest is essential for ensuring the integrity of Wikipedia and retaining the public's trust in it. As in academia, COI is managed here in two steps - disclosure and a form of peer review. Please note that there is no bar to being part of the Wikipedia community if you want to be involved in articles where you have a conflict of interest; there are just some things we ask you to do (and if you are paid, some things you need to do).

Disclosure is the most important, and first, step. While I am not asking you to disclose your identity (anonymity is strictly protecting by our WP:OUTING policy) would you please disclose if you have some connection with Rubicon Communications, LLC (Netgate) or the developer community for PfSense, directly or through a third party (e.g. a PR agency or the like)? You can answer how ever you wish (giving personally identifying information or not), but if there is a connection, please disclose it. After you respond (and you can just reply below), I can walk you through how the "peer review" part happens and then, if you like, I can provide you with some more general orientation as to how this place works. Please reply here, just below, to keep the discussion in one place. Thanks! Jytdog (talk) 19:02, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

@Jytdog, no connection with above mentioned except being user and fan of pfSense and member of their community (but not a developer or even contributor). I understand you're trying to be neutral and fair, but I have to admit I find it disappointing when all it takes to make my input questionable is a few confirmed sock or meat puppet accounts reporting me. I have to strongly disagree that my edits are promotional for pfSense considering most of my edits are preventing OPNsense vandalism. If you check my history very little edits have been made on pfSense page, mostly in July 2015 and that's because the page was outdated. The rest of my time spent on Wikipedia is removing OPNsense vandalism and defending myself from their developers, employees and sock / meat puppet attacks. I am unsure if you've seen my report here and closing? I'm asking because this is a result of COI when I was reported by a possible sock or meat puppet account from OPNsense. :I don't see if anyone has investigated Joswp who is also another Deciso employee and one of lead OPNsense people, which I have reported on the link above.--Mr.hmm (talk) 19:59, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. Thanks too for acknowledging that you are a fan. This is very clear from contribs. And when I say "very clear" and I mean very clear.

I did not come to your talk page, to discuss anybody's behavior here other than yours.

• Your first edits here moved the PfSense entry up the list in the List of products based on FreeBSD page (out of alphabetical order and above )
• Your next edits reduced the WEIGHT given to the OPNsense entry (now below the PfSense entry). (I do agree with removing the low quality refs there)
• You then made a slew of sources or SPS-sourced edits to PfSense, and the only ref you cited was exactly the kind you had removed from the OPNsense entry, contradicting your own reasoning there.
• The article was nominated for deletion as you made that set of edits, and your next edits were bringing invalid !keep arguments like this and this and this and this
• The OPNsense page was nominated for deletion and you went there and made the same kind of invalid arguments, this time to delete. this and this and this

and it just goes on from there.

Everything you have done in WP has been advocacy, adding unsourced SPS content to PfSense and defending it there, and then turning and removing unsourced and SPS content from OPNsense and defending doing that there.

We are interested in managing conflict of interest but unrestrained advocacy damages Wikipedia just as much.

So please acknowledge that you have been editing as advocate (or "fan") for PfSense and against OPNsense (or as a "hater", as it were). Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 22:49, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

I said I'm a fan and user of pfSense, but I didn't acknowledge that I am a advocate, which I am not. I said I'm a pfSense user and a fan to establish myself as someone acquainted with the software and the project. If you noticed, I completely stopped contributing to pfSense page after OPNsense promotion got more often. That is precisely so I am not seen as an advocate. Regarding the edits you brought up, I don't see how the edits listed out of context show that I'm an advocate. In fact, if you're here to discuss only about my edits then why ignore almost everything I did to prevent vandalism? Why is continuous harassment by several OPNsense associated accounts ignored?

• List of products based on FreeBSD - at the time I did not notice that list was in alphabetic order. If you look, I listed pfSense under m0n0wall, as pfSense is m0n0wall fork. I'm not sure if I would call "reducing the weight" the section where I removed the obvious self-promotion inserted by OPNsense developers and project associates which described OPNsense as "stateful firewall and router, successor of M0n0wall & fork of pfSense." on the list. Instead I copied identical description from pfSense "open source and free network firewall distribution". So I don't understand how this is pfSense advocacy when I at best had a neutral approach.

• Regarding the slew of sources or SPS-sourced edits to PfSense, unless you link those diffs I cannot really comment. I don’t understand the ref part where I supposedly contradicted myself. Are you saying I cited the ref for keeping pfSense which was same for deleting OPNSense? Sorry that doesn’t make much sense.

• I don't understand your arguments about pfSense deletion page considering the page was listed as keep. Several other editors questioned the reasoning for deletion as well. Therefore I don't consider my arguments invalid.

• OPNsense page was deleted and my references were acknowledged as valid analysis. See here, notice the names of OPNsense associated people again trying to influence the deletion discussion.

I'd also like to point out that I never used any other accounts to edit on Wikipedia, unlike many others. I don't acknowledge to be advocate just because you list several of my edits out of context. The "fan" or "hater" analogy looks like I'm being tricked into something. Lastly, if you don't want to talk about other obvious OPNsense associated accounts on my talk page, please tell me where we can talk about it.--Mr.hmm (talk) 23:40, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

I am not talking about any person's edits or behavior but yours here. I will discuss others' edits with them.

You have allowed your fan-ness, to lead you to consistently violate the WP:PROMO and WP:NPOV policies in your editing. Please read them, and please read WP:YESPOV, WP:ADVOCACY (a very helpful essay), and WP:SPA (another helpful essay).

I am asking you to become aware of this, and to stop acting this way. Jytdog (talk) 23:50, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Sure, I will read the essays and policies, although the WP:PRONO one appears to not exist. Thanks!--Mr.hmm (talk) 00:00, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

I fixed it. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 00:14, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

The main thing I am after here, is that you step back from the fray while we sort this out. Please stop.

If you like please read User:Jytdog/How where i try to explain what WP is and is not - what its mission actually is, how the community governs itself, and what the main policies and guidelines are through which the community tries to realize the mission.

If you want to show that you are here in good faith I suggest that you edit about other stuff while we work out the issues around these two products. Please try to use only high quality, independent sources (avoid company websites, press releases, and blogs, and concentrate on adding high level accepted knowledge to WP aimed at the general public -- stuff people can learn from, not "news" and not super-detailed product information. If you know a lot of about firewalls and networking maybe you can improve our coverage of those topics. Very often articles get warped by tons of detail being added to some tiny aspect while there is some big hole or very undeveloped sections about important stuff. Experts can be very helpful in evening out content, filling gaps and trimming back excessive detail. Please consider doing that. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 00:36, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Enabling OPNsense despite their abuse and asking me to sit back and do nothing is wrong on so many levels. You're also putting false information on OPNsense page you just approved. If that wasn't bad, you enable OPNsense main developer to feed you with false information (I suggest you go to deciso.com and look what's listed under products or to go and read the end of m0n0wall message from Manuel Kasper--Mr.hmm (talk) 16:43, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

You are still talking about other people, instead of yourself. I will say that it is clear to me, that OPNsense advocates started pushing for content about that product before it was Notable (as that term is defined in WP). That said, the OPNsense article has now passed legitimately through AfC, and I am working to bring both articles in line with WP policies and guidelines.

Please be aware that I am known in the community for editing neutrally in contested topics. I use independent sources almost exclusively, and SPS when needed to fill in details. I summarize those independent sources.

Let me try to make more clear, what I have hinted at above. You have been doing precisely one thing in WP. If you continue abusing your editing privileges in this way you will likely end up blocked or topic banned. Please let this conflict go, and work on other things. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 18:02, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't plan to edit OPNsense page. I will drop this matter entirely for now and focus on other content. As you said above, there are other areas where I can help. Thanks. --Mr.hmm (talk) 19:44, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

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