User talk:Nordron

June 2020

Hello. Your recent edit to Kalamazoo Central High School appears to have added the name of a non-notable entity to a list that normally includes only notable entries. In general, a person, organization or product added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. If you wish to create such an article, please first confirm that the subject qualifies for a separate, stand-alone article according to Wikipedia's notability guideline. Thank you. Meters (talk) 05:19, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I thought National Academy of Engineering membership was enough for Kalamazoo Central HS notable. See your criteria: 3. The person has been an elected member of a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association (e.g., a National Academy of Sciences or the Royal Society) or a fellow of a major scholarly society which reserves fellow status as a highly selective honor (e.g., Fellow of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers). Nordron (talk) 05:50, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So why did you try to link Ronald Nordgren if you knew he didn't have an article but you thought that he could be presumed to be notable? It may be that membership in the National Academy of Engineering does qualify him to be presumed notable, but even if so, you didn't provide any references, so we don't know that the person actually has that qualification, that he attended the school, or even that he really exists. And from your user name it appears that you may be trying to add an entry for yourself. That's really not a good idea. Meters (talk) 06:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My intent was to show that engineers as well as athletes (9 of 13 listed) could be "notable" and that this might influence young students. I was unaware of your "article requirement" but later found that your criteria 3 (listed above) should apply. Here is a reference to his NAE membership: https://www.nae.edu/28275/Dr-Ronald-P-Nordgren (I could not get this to stick to my original posting). Here is confirmation that he attended Kalamazoo Central HS, class of 1953: https://www.classmates.com/siteui/yearbooks/1000239675?page=76&searchTerm=Nordgren&yearbookViewerEnabled=true&swipeEnabled=true. If this is not sufficient, let's just drop the matter. Thank you for your consideration. Nordron (talk) 17:59, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, as you did at Kalamazoo Central High School, you may be blocked from editing. John from Idegon (talk) 03:50, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I do not believe that I engaged in "disruptive editing." I have tried to follow your criteria for "notables." According to Meters: "It may be that membership in the National Academy of Engineering does qualify him to be presumed notable..." I supplied the documentation requested by Meters and I have attempted to discuss this issue in a courteous manner. I don't mind that you reject this material, but I take offense at your harsh accusation of "disruptive editing."Nordron (talk) 05:15, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, Nordron, this has nothing to do with your crass attempts at self promotion. It has to do with you inserting outright lies into the article. There is no such thing as "competitive marching band" in Michigan or any other states, and MHSAA has never had any involvement whatsoever with music competition. John from Idegon (talk) 05:38, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- But as far as your crass attempts at self promotion do go, content of individual Wikipedia pages is decided by consensus of interested editors on each individual article. Rules guide those discussions, but it is the interpretation of the rules on that individual article that decides. I would put forth that the only way you're going to gain consensus for including the name in the notable alumni list is to write the biography first. What say you, Meters? John from Idegon (talk) 05:51, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - I would certainly much prefer to see an article to prove notability. We are generally quite conservative about allowing school page entries without articles. I personally don't know enough about the National Academy of Engineering to know if it qualifies as "a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society". Given that Nordron appears to be attempting to add himself I'm a bit leery. I'll also point out that Classmates.com is not likely to be an acceptable source to show his attendance. It's a user-generated site, and apart from that we have no way of knowing that the person mentioned is the person in question. Notable people are generally the subject of biographical coverage and newspaper articles that mention high schools. Meters (talk) 07:51, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I regard your accusation of "crass attempts at self promotion" as baseless and insulting. At age 84 and retired, I have no interest in self promotion and if I did I would hardly resort to a high school article. My intent was to show that engineers as well as athletes could be "notable" in the ordinary sense of the word. I was not aware of Wikipedia's concept of "notable" and I did not know that a biographical article is required for one to become "notable." I have no desire for such an article and I am quite content to remain unnotable. I regret wasting your time on this matter. However, I am surprised that you are not familiar with the National Academy of Engineering which is described in Wikipedia and on the web at "nae.edu." As to my "Competitive Marching Band" entry, Michigan does have marching band competition (see: https://themcba.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=112) but it is not a MHSAA athletic sport so it should be listed separately if that is allowed. I apologize for my mistake and I will be more careful on any future editing.Nordron (talk) 04:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree with you that Wikipedia's notability standards are seriously slanted in favour of professional athletes. I don't like it either, but there's not much we can do about it.

Having done some research it seems likely that you would be considered notable (there are less than 200 living mechanical engineers who are members of the National Academy of Engineering) but if you don't wan tan article I won't suggest that one be written or write it myself. I don't know why you would be surprised that I am not personally knowledgeable about the Academy. I'm not even an American. Are you personally knowledgeable about every professional society in every field worldwide? Meters (talk) 05:57, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about my NAE gaff. I forgot that Wikipedia is international. Thanks for your offer, but I do not believe that I deserve an article. Currently I am doing some math research on magic squares, not engineering. I hope that your country ("favour" = Brit?) is holding up well under the pandemic. I live in Colorado which is recovering well so far, but the increase in USA infections is troubling.Nordron (talk) 22:43, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, Commonwealth, but not British. We're certainly doing better than the US as far as COVID goes. It's troubling to see the resurgence in parts of the US. Good luck to you. Meters (talk) 00:25, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]