User talk:Phfor

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Reply to "Muslim Feminist?"[edit]

If you read only part of the text, how can you be sure?

Sura (4:11): It is not in all cases, the same aya says that the mother and father get equal shares. Moreover, you should understand this with other issues. The woman has the right to be fully supported by her next of kin regardless of whether she was rich or not. As an example, should my father now die (God forbid), I will inherit only half of what my brother does; however, I can invest all my money or leave it in the bank or bury it under a tree, then go to my brother and demand he supports me with the same level of lifestyle he lives (unless I'm married where it shall be my husbands obligation). So I'd say I have a good deal here.

Sura (2:228): The degree is of responsibility. Read the whole context, the aya says: "And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree over them." women get exactly what they have to give except in one case, men are required to support financially, women do not have such an obligation. This responsibility give the man an additional right that women do not have.

Sura (24:31): the same thing is required from men. If you make a search in the Quran you would find that this is mentioned many times, required from both men and women. It's not like women have to look in the ground and men can stare as much as they want, neither have the right to stare at the other; looking at the other gender is OK if you look mdestly (like when talking to someone) without "looking deeply at how the other looks like". This is what is meant by "lowering the gaze". Besides, lowering the gaze is a translation of the Arabic phrase, the verb in which is GhaDh, which does not mean "to lower" but "to turn away"; so what the aya is actually saying is that they should turn their eyes away (both men and women) and not look at what they should not look at.

Sura (2:282): not in all cases and depending highly on the matter to be witnessed or testified. If you read the whole aya you will find that this specifically talks about a witnessing a contract. If, on the other hand, a woman witnessed a crime, her testimony in a court of law will be equal to that of a man. If you read the Sharia (Islamic law) fully you will find that in some cases a woman's testimony is held higher than that of a man's, such as in rape (which I will explain below). It depend on the issue and the case.

Sura (24:13): The aya you mentioned is totally irrelevant to rape. You should read the preceding ayas to understand the issue. This is a case of accusing a chaste, married woman of adultery, the aya says that people started talking as if it were true, if they had brought 4 witnesses to prove their case then they would not be liars.

Zina (adultery or fornification) requires 4 eye-witnesses to intercourse (witnessing foreplay is not enough) to prove or else the one that claims it is considered a liar and will be subject to harsh punishment. This is mentioned in the Quran; rape is not mentioned in the Quran at all, it's mentioned in the Sunna, if a woman claims that she has been raped then her word is taken for it without proof or even looking for proof. proof is only required to punish the rapist, in which case material evidence works if you can not find 2 witnesses. 2 witnesses here because it is not zina it is a crime so his case is dealt with similar to that of a murderer. His punishment is also execution, similar to that of a murderer. If he claims she consented to it, he will be punished for zina but she will not unless HE can bring 4 eye witnesses.

Up to my understanding, Pakistani law does not differentiate between zina and "istikrah" (rape or force even if indirect, such as threatening he will kill a loved one). That is not Islam's fault it's the Pakistani law's fault, as Islam does differentiate between the two. A raped woman, according to Sharia, is a victim and is not punished at all.

There are many misconceptions about this issue, so I don't blame you for not knowing. As a matter of fact, most muslims do not know because Sharia is a law, unless you are a lawyer specialised in Sharia law, you are not expected to know much about the details.

I hope this clarifies these issues.

As for being a Muslim feminist, I know one thing for sure, Islam says "Women are the sisters of men"; there are two words for sister/brother in Arabic, one for general brotherhood the other "shaqeeq" means a brother (shaqeeqa for sister) that is of the same mother AND father as if they are one cut in half. It is derived from the root Shaqqa, to cut in half; meaning they are exactly similar/equal/alike. This is the word used in the text, meaning that women and men are so similar to eachother it is as if they were one cut into two. If people misinterpet texts, exclude texts, read text out of context or whatever even if they are muslim then I would correct them, and fight to do so if I must.

--Maha Odeh 07:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be a hot topic[edit]

Would you say this section of Honor Killing is properly or improperly sourced?

According to the Qur'an, adultery is a punishable sin. [1]

There are some scholars who claim the act of honor killing is encouraged in Islam, [3] [4] while some others disagree. [5] However, honor killings are regularly carried out in the Muslim world, [6] [7] [8] [9] and there are specific examples of Muhammad executing adulterers. For example, a married man confesses that he has adultery. Muhammad orders him planted in the ground and pelted with stones, he tries to escape but is dragged back. [10] A woman who became pregnant confesses to Muhammad that she is guilty of adultery. Muhammad allows her to have the child, and she is stoned after giving birth. [11]. A woman confesses adultery and is stoned to death on Muhammad's order. [12]

Some modern Islamic religious authorities prohibit extra-legal punishments such as honor killings, since they consider the practice to be a cultural issue.[13] They believe that since certain pre-Islamic cultures have influence over a number of Muslims, murderers of females use Islam to justify honor killing, but claim there is no support for the act in the religion itself. The death penalty cannot always be applied in the Sharia as murders are a type of "qisas" ("retaliation") crime 2-178. This means that the deceased's family should be offered the choice of capital punishment or "diyya" ("blood money") and no execution can take place without them opting for death. Because a relative(s) is usually responsible for the honor killing, it is unlikely that the deceased's family will punish one of their own for the crime.[14]. However other punishments can be legislated and the murderer cannot pardon himself.[15]

United States Bill of Rights has been selected as the United States Wikipedians' Collaboration of the Month for June 2011[edit]

As one of the editors who has made improvements to the United States Bill of Rights article recently this notice has been left to inform you that it has been selected as the United States Wikipedians' Collaboration of the Month for June 2011. The goal this month is to get this article to Good Article standards or better by July 4th, 2011. You can also vote for next months article of the Month or submit a candidate for article of the month here. --Kumioko (talk) 02:23, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

  1. ^ The Light [1], "USC-EDU"
  2. ^ "The Light". USC-MSA. Retrieved 2007-09-28.
  3. ^ Dr Bhaskar Dasgupta [2] "No Honour In Honour Killings"
  4. ^ Islam Online: [3], "How Islam Views Adultery"
  5. ^ Crescent Life [4] "Honor Killings"
  6. ^ CNN News [5] "Kurdish teen of 17, was beaten and stoned to death by a crowd in northern Iraq"
  8. ^ 'Honour' killer jailed 5/ 9/2007: [7], "'Honour' killer jailed"
  9. ^ FOX News, Thursday, October 11, 2007: [8], "Austrian Man Shoots Colleague, Slices off Penis in 'Honor Killing'"
  10. ^ The Light [9], "USC-EDU"
  11. ^ The Light [10], "USC-EDU"
  12. ^ The Light [11] , "USC-EDU"
  13. ^ Honor Killing from an Islamic Perspective, June 17, 2002
  14. ^ Islam Online (Atiyyah Saqr): Reprisal in Islamic Legal System, March 30, 2005
  15. ^ Chapter 37. Judgements on Homicide and Hadd-Punishments