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Kikuyu people

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I don't understand why you keep reverting the page and introducing information which is highly speculative and not supported by the footnotes. Quoting "lonely Planet" is hardly a credible source, and when you follow the links regards the genetic linkages, the article does not support that the genetic linkage is from West Africa. Whether the Kikuyu people do or do not have some ancestral heritage to the north, continues to be a matter of question which has hardly been disproved and requires further investigation. The question clearly at least warrants investigation and should be noted in these pages. Otherwise I question your reasons and motivation for continuing to remove the information.

Tyfrazier (talk) 15:46, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. Thanks for contacting me; I appreciate the attempt at dialogue. The way Wikipedia's WP:UNDUE policy works is that we can cite the various origin theories of a given ethnic group, but we must do so in relative proportion to their actual prominence. There's nothing in and of itself wrong with the view you indicated suggesting that the Kikuyu have some traditions associated with an Israeli origin. After all, so did (and do) the Lemba, and those traditions were eventually proven to be true. The problem is that you sourced this particular tradition to a blog post, which, despite its title, doesn't actually appear to discuss Jewish origins for the Kikuyu. Wikipedia's self-published sources or WP:SPS policy discourages such references because of their editable nature. Another problem is that you also removed material on the dominant, traditional views as to the origins of the Kikuyu. Namely, the part that reads "Some authorities suggest that they arrived in their present Mount Kenya area of inhabitation from earlier settlements further to the north and east,[3] while others argue that the Kikuyu, along with related Eastern Bantu people such as the Embu, Mbeere and Meru, moved into Kenya from points further south.[4]". This is material that a Kikuyu editor and myself previously discussed in the past and collaborated on (c.f. [1]). Regarding the genetic information, as I understand it, the E3a or E1b1a haplogroup is the signature Bantu marker; the linked pdf also seems to associate it with the Niger-Congo language family, which the Kikuyu language belongs to [2]. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 16:37, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK, this I can accept in most part. Regarding citations, I think the main citation is Lonely Planet, which is difficult for me to accept as an authoritative source. I would have expected either a book or at least a peer reviewed article. Regarding the part which you indicated I removed, if it truly did happen, then it wasn't my intention. My intent wasn't to introduce a new point of origin, but to simply introduce the fact that there is some question as to the origin of the Kikuyu people. As for the genetics, I noticed the origin of the E1b1a group had been altered to introduce West Africa as the most likely point of origin, whereas previously it was only East Africa. Additionally, when you actually read the source cited on that page, I did not find anything to support the idea that E1b1a had a likely origin in West Africa.

Here is what I suggest. We introduce a new section that introduces the idea that there is at least some oral tradition supporting the idea the Kikuyu may have originally migrated from the north first and then later combined with Bantu speaking persons, and we can expand on the section as different theories are supported or refuted. What do you think?

Tyfrazier (talk) 20:02, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a look, and the genetics section doesn't appear to suggest that E1b1a arrived from West Africa. It labels the haplogroup "Sub-Saharan", which I believe it is. I can understand your concerns regarding the Lonely Planet ref. A more academic source would be preferable, so we can change that if necessary. The existing origins section can also be expanded to include a sub-section on the oral traditions that you mention, provided that the material is reliably sourced. But correct me if I'm wrong here: you seem to be suggesting that the Kikuyu assimilated Bantu speakers as they moved southwards rather than actually originally being Bantu peoples. Out of curiosity, how common is this view amongst the Kikuyu? Do they have similar traditions as, say, the Hima or Tutsi suggesting that their ancestors were originally non-Bantu peoples who were gradually assimilated into Bantu society? Middayexpress (talk) 15:06, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

October 2012

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Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living persons, as you did to Family of Barack Obama. Thank you. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 07:22, 13 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent editing history at Family of Barack Obama ‎ shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 07:24, 13 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

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Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You could also click on the signature button or located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when they said it. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 14:28, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation

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Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Wywin (talk) 18:30, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation

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Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! France3470 (talk) 05:16, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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