User talk:Venu62/Archive4

Vijayanagar empire

Parthi, will you have time to go over Vijayanagar Empire page as this seems to be ready for Copy edit/Peer review? Its a long page though with many attached articles.Dineshkannambadi 19:04, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Brother Dont worry, Tamil is Great

I have seen in Talk page of User:Sundar that you are worrying about under-estimation of Tamil by many people. First of all let me make you clear two points,

• Sankrit was strongly backed by its Grammar and its literature along with the advantage of being the lithurgical and canonical language of hinduism. As per linguistic view we have no other way but to simply accept about its perfection in terms of grammar and expression of meanings. Even the europeans (who think they are the pure aryans) feel proud about this language as belonging to Indo-European family. But blind adoration of any language is wrong because no language is linguistically superior or inferior to another. Sanskrit has extremely influenced Indian culture and Indian languages throughout the time. So, Even the grammar of highly developed languages (for example) like Hindi, Bengali, Marathi, Telugu is based on Sanskrit. So, If it was considered that Some concepts in Tolkappiyam as translation of Indra Grammar may be just historical and there is nothing to worry. Tamil is Tamil and Sanskrit is Sanskrit thats all.

• Many Tamil people simply understimate other dravidian languages Telugu, Kannada and Malayalam just saying that they came from Sangattamizh. This is completely wrong. We must learn respecting other languages too. When we ourselves dont respect other developed dravidian languages then how we can comment about that of sanskrit. If respect India then we respect all of its official languages. If not it will be nothing but regionalism which we must shun before it curbs India. (See my article in Talk page of Sanskrit naming "An explanation for thy argument"

-User:Bsskchaitanya 13.11 15 November 2006.

Carnatic Music page

Parthi, I think the course of action on this page is to go for Arbitration. The content is highly unbalanced. Resistance to include FACTS is certainly troubling. --Aadal 14:10, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Parthi, thanks for your note. Would it be possible for you to leave those messages yourself? The reason is I'm unsure how I should do this, plus the next few days are going to be very tight for me. I believe the article needs to be carefully edited with proper syntax, flow of ideas, balance of views where there are significant differences etc. But the way this article is edited and reverted, it seems like an impossibility. There is ample scope to make it as one of the best India-related page, with a wealth of information written in an inviting manner. Information about musical pillars in south India, Musical Inscriptions in Thirumayam and few other places as well, photographs of ancient sculptures depicting various musical instruments etc. will add value to the article. I'm amazed how you're able to write all those articles and do all those edits! And I hate to request you to this as well, but in the interests of doig this properly and in time, I'm making this request. --Aadal 14:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)--Aadal 15:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

favour

Parthi, when you have time, can you please add a map for eastern Chalukya page showing their territories? I will bring in "reference notes" for many of the statements there. This issue may come up during the current peer riview. Unles I am wrong, it was you who created this page, right?Dineshkannambadi 22:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Favour#2

In the Western Chalukya and Chalukya Dynasty pages, how do I move my picture to the top right and the box below it. Also, do you have a map for Western chalukya that looks like the Badami Chalukya one you created (with the colors). In the eastern Chalukya page, I will try to bring in citations where ever possible with my sources, please see if you can add to it to reduce possible issues later.Dineshkannambadi 17:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

CM dispute

Hi Parthi. Going by Sarvagnya's messages, he appears to be ready to cooperate in a constructive discussion. I wish that Aadal and you too reciprocate when he does that forgetting past disputes. Not sure about what Srkris would do though. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 11:50, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Parthi,Thank you for your kind message. The next few days are going to be quite tight for me, but I can participate starting from the coming Thursday (Nov 2nd). But until then I can offer brief comments and responses. --Aadal 12:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Peer review/History of Tamil Nadu/archive1

I've left some comments for you. You've gotten a great peer review from other editors, and when everything mentioned there is taken care of, you'll be ready for FAC. - Taxman ^Talk 20:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Ancient Tamil Music and CM

Parthi, You may be interested in this article in SRUTI by B.M. Sundaram.--Aadal 21:17, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikistalking

Please stop Wikipedia:Wikistalking me. A tiny sample of your work that falls in this category:

Teshub, Slavic Mythology , Kerala Kalamandalam, Chembai, Chembai Sangeetholsavam, Tamil Trinity, [1], [2]

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. -- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 07:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Dont forget that the way your watching me (as I have shown in the above articles) is called harrassment or wikistalking by WP.-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 17:14, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

My reply - Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 22:19, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I have made it very clear that the articles involved in your wikistalking exercise (as quoted by me above) do not have anything to do with Carnatic Music.-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 04:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Which criminal has accepted his crime?-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 04:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I have accepted that I placed the links en-masse, on your complaint page asking for ban of my website. I also pleaded ignorance and stopped it once I was alerted about WP policies. My site was not banned as a consequence. It has nothing to do with what you have been doing. Stalking me constructively, eh?-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 05:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I have already mentioned some articles in which you were stalking me. I mention them again here:

Teshub, Slavic Mythology , Kerala Kalamandalam, Chembai, Chembai Sangeetholsavam, Tamil Trinity, [3], [4]

WP:STALK says "The term "wiki-stalking" has been coined to describe following a contributor around the wiki, editing the same articles as the target, with the intent of causing annoyance or distress to another contributor." Note the phrase "annoyance or distress"

-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 06:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Calling my link here and here and here and here as "spamming" when you wikified it, shows only a vindictive attitude, and you say you're trying to help! If you had cared to check when I had given that link in these pages, it was over a year ago, when there was no wiki article on Chembai! -- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 06:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Chola Map

How to correct a map. The three cities are not in the correct place in that map. For Example Gangaikonda Cholapuram is in Theni District  Doctor Bruno  00:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

What about this image ta:படிமம்:Carte_chola.png ta:Image:Carte_chola.png  Doctor Bruno  00:14, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Mythical Cholas

In the chola infobox, I have changed the heading from "early cholas" to "mythical cholas". This is because none of the early cholas are 'historically proven' cholas. There is no epigraphic or archeological evidence to support the fact that they even existed. There are references to them only in literature and poetry. That too only in Tamil literature and poetry. It is like claiming Rama, Krishna, Ugrasena, Jarasandha et al as historic kings. Please make a distinction between history and mythology. Thanks. Sarvagnya 05:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

And what scholarly source says that they were anything more than mythical kings? Do you have any source which gives archeological or epigraphic evidence for their existence? Even the articles that you have yourself created for each of those kings clearly says that the only reference you find for them is in Sangam poetry. Sangam poetry is not a history book nor was it meant as one. Mythology is mythology. History is history. Dont mix the two and fool readers. btw, I want your scholarly evidence. Sarvagnya 05:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

(Pasting the reply I had given on my talk page) In this article you created yourself, you yourself say, " Though legendary and apocryphal, the early Chola kings of the Sangam period and the life of people contributed much to the cultural wealth of the Tamil country. The Sangam literature is full of legends about the mythical Chola kings". Unless you can prove that they were anything more than legendary and mythical, there is no reason to club them with kings whose historicity is proven. Rama and Krishna appear in literature and poetry in all languages all over India. And yet, nobody has gone as far as call them anything more than mythical. So I will be changing it. And one more thing, do NOT use popups in content disputes. You should know better considering the company you keep(No, I am not talking about Sundar... not even close). Thanks. Sarvagnya 05:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Before shooting your mouth off, go back and read the article that you have written yourself. The words(your words) that I quoted are under the "Cholas of the Sangam period" section. It starts not from 10000 BC, but from an equally spurious 3200 BC and runs all the way into 245 CE. Sarvagnya 06:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Sarvagnya has been misusing the popups from long back.make sure u dont break the 3RR rule as he and his friends might provoke u to do so.This is from a victiom :) Mahawiki 06:37, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Chola

Yes, I will cool down, but this is really not acceptable. He is trying to call Karikala as myhtical. Not done. Anyway, do provide the citations. Shritami 19:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

relating removal of site carnaticindia

it has been found that the site http://carnaticindia.com/ has been continuously removed from Wp external links section in the article carnatic music. the reason you gave was that it contains google ads. then why are you retaining the site http://www.carnatica.net/ in the same location. i dont see any logic. please rethink on your decision and revert the changes, love and regards, Krishna

Portuguese

I added a citation tag last week in the Indian renaming controversy which says that the name Madras was derived from the Portuguese. Can you please check this and remove the tag. Tintin (talk) 09:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Interesting but a little confusing :) Since Hobson & Jobson suggests the current usage could have come from the Portuguese, I guess I should remove the tag. Tintin (talk) 02:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

My edit to History of Tamil Nadu

Hi Venu

What I was trying to say was that saying "the history of TN predates 600BC though there is very little evidence" sounds kinda lame. I see there is some justification later on the paragraph but nothing really to prove the point. So why do you think the history of TN predates 600BC? Cribananda 07:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh ok, now what you say makes sense, but I feel it would be better if that justifying sentence came right after this sentence. Just my thought. Cribananda 21:39, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Chalukya

Parthi, Looks like the Peer review discussion has been archived now. What next? How do we go for FAC?

Chalukya

I have nominated for FAC. Lets see what happens.Dineshkannambadi 02:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The Bell

Parthi, it's most likely not from the Chola period. What'll be a good article to add this to - Tamil people, Tamil script? -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 06:07, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The script doesn't look archaic at all. In fact, I was able to read "உடைய மணி". By the way, there are some interesting facts added to ta:சோழர் talking about the prevailing social conditions with references. Please see if any of those can be used in the English article. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 06:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, Parthi. Please have a look at the Chola article in Tamil when you find time. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 08:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Chalukya

I dont understand points 2 and 8 on the FAC requirements list by user Dwaipayan. How can I wikilink a page for Badami Chalukya, when main page pertains to Badami Chalukya itself. Also I cant find the ISBN for Kamath and Thapar on the book itself. Is there anyother way I can get this info? I will take care of the header tonight.Dineshkannambadi 13:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Lead

Parthi, I have moved the lines on conquests and inline ref notes to the Periods in Chalukya History section. Please read it and see if its ok.I have added a couple of lines also.Dineshkannambadi 22:54, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Chalukya Red links

I should have pages created for Mahakuta Pillar and Kappe Arabhatta by tommorow. I am collecting info right now.Dineshkannambadi 02:52, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Chalukya-dates for online references

At a few places I have referenced from www.OurKarnataka.com and Dr. Jyotsna Kamat's online pages. How can I provide dates for each reference? This work has been going on for months.Dineshkannambadi 03:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Chalukya infobox

Parthi, what's your opinion on (Chalukya talk page).Dineshkannambadi 13:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

re: History of Tamil Nadu

Parthi, I must say that this article is the best single writeup on the subject anywhere on the web or even off of it. It can move to FAC very soon where it will get polished a bit more before becoming an FA.

Regarding my fix to the politics section, it has removed the inaccuracy, but still calls for a precise statement. Can you try getting it from the references that I've provided in the talk page? -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 08:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Parthi, I did some copyedit for readability. On a relook, I feel that this article deals with only the Political history of Tamil Nadu except for a few references. If you agree, either more information on Economy, Society etc., should be added or this article moved to a different title. What do you think about this? -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 02:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

That sounds fine. Since none else felt this way during peer review, the current treatment is perhaps good. Signing off now. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 03:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Dravida stan

Dear Venu,

I never want to modify this article. But like to delete from wikipedia. This was a real misleading by the user Vikram singh. This is so nasty article to break India. And it is another cheat by North Indians by giving the name STAN Instead of Nadu.

Dravida Nadu, Dravida Desham etc are correct.Although I am a Dravidan But I never give importance to this article and it have to delete from Wikipedia. Other wise it will make problems in south India. The Back bone of India is South India. Dont try to mislead people. The people who had power allready corrected the history of India and now they try to mislead again. Please don't allow this more.

We are Indians. People who living in Southern side of India reached to South India from river Indus. Thus there is no SouthIndias. Only India. Great India. Now people in North also trying once more in another way ?

Do you know there is a story about Sri Budda ? It is saying that Budha is an Avatar of Lord Vishnu. Story is that the lower class people tried to learn Vedas. Then it was not liked upperclass people. Budda toled to lowerclass people that don't learn Vedas it was full of the blunders. Thus people belong to lower class stopped to learn Vedas. Thus budda became the avatar of Lord Vishnu. This article is like this. A total entrapment.

Whatever be I once more supporting to delete this article . You just think.

We are Indians , Some body like to spoil India. You just think What is the origin of Carnatic Music.? Actually why we are shrinking to South India. Why dont to spread it to all over India and out ? You just think.

people from the other world think : Indian music means Hindustani music, Indian cinema means Bollywood Indian Actor means Amitab batchan, Indian Singer means Lata mangeshkar All things are like that and what about us ?

What about Carnatic, Kollywood , Kamal Hasan and Jesudas all are out from India and had a title great south Indians. I pity in this Partiality. But we have to wake up to spread our culture into all over world. You know once we could spread our culture to East asia. We have great power. Don't shrink into 4 state. They are like Bhishma. we never be a Karna.

Wake up wake up.... Please reply me Rgds Selavaraj 09:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Eastern Chalukya

Please add the name of the most important king of this dynasty to the info box created in their page. I am not sure about their historyThanksDineshkannambadi 02:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

I see. Thanks for the information. Regarding the History of Tamil Nadu page, I think the heading of the interregnum subsection can simply be Interregnum (300 – 600), as there is a main article wikilink underneath it. It also keeps it short. What do you say? Wubbabubba 13:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Ayyavazhi

Hai friend,

Why you removed Ayyavazhi from the article Tamil people? Ayyavazhi festival was declared as a holiday for three districts. It shows the profound presence of Ayyavazhi followers in the South. (i.e) in three districts the numbers are very large which leads it to be declared it as a holiday.

So please don't remove it from there.

Thank you. - Paul 23:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Sastri's book

Thanks Parthi. To merit a claim in the lead, I expected something of an authoritative statement on the subject, not a phrase like "said to have been". To be fair, the lead faithfully reproduces the along-the-way statement. But, hmm ... -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 10:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I can see what they're doing. Prof.Hart was surprised that there are Indians who are upset that Tamil is recognised as classical. Certainly English, French or Germans don't resent Greek for its classical language status. He wrote "That Tamil is a classical language is a fact, not an imagined fantasy. I don't see how that fact makes Telugu or Kannada or any other language the less." I completely share his view. Living in Karnataka, I can appreciate the greatness of Kannada language, but perhaps some extreme activists amongst Tamilians have caused the others to take a hostile stand.

An RfC or arbitration would be tedious and time-consuming. We can only point out policy violations and get them corrected. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 10:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all the research on the subject. I've got some more inputs from another friend. Let's do a thorough job of research before refuting it. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 06:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Ayyavazhi Hoax

It seems to me that this entire concept of Ayyavazhi is some big hoax in WP history. I ran a news search on all the major Tamilnadu centric newspapers and not even a single result came. I ran a search on the book, "Religion and Subaltern Agency" and not a single reference on any non-WP caching site. There is some big mischief going on. We have got to collect people knowledgeable in Tamil Nadu to group and verify their thin claims and if no major claim is found, we have to put all teh articles for speedy delete. Balajiviswanathan 23:47, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

User Paul and Vaikunta Raja

I found that out today, and we need to put a case for sockpuppetteering. It is a shame for us to leave all that hoax to be some religion and they have even put a portal for it. This case should be a landmark in Wikipedian history, of some hoax been led upto the portal form and honestly it speaks so mean of the level of controls in Wikipedia. If this happens, tomorrow any body could take some insane book and make a sect out of themselves and use Wikipedia to really convince the world of that.

Oh! A painful realworld story of the "Emperor's clothes". There was nothing to start with, and a prankster convinced the whole world that this invisible dress is there. Once, we clear of this hoax, I want to write a special article on this biggest hoax of WP. We have got to put together all the people and put a block on that user and after due consideration should put speedy delete on all of them. There is no point in cleaning things individually. I tried cleaning up a dozen things including Palliarai, Yama Loga and Thiruchendur... but they have gotten too deep. We need drastic action. Balajiviswanathan 00:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

History of TN

I shall take a look tonight. I took a quick look yesterday and it looks comprahensive and good though I did not read it fully.Dineshkannambadi 13:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Tamil History

I believe that the line "Although there is very little concrete historical evidence that has been found so far for the period prior to 600 CE" in the first part of Pre-historic period should be written as litte archaelogical evidence are found before 600 CE. Literary references like Thirukkural and Tholkappiam are much before 600 CE. So, archaelogical evidence should not be directly equated to historical evidence. Also Mahavamsam records have to be mentioned where the Srilankan historical chronicles write about Tamilnadu even before 100 AD <IMHO> Balajiviswanathan 00:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Thirukural's age is widely believed to be around 2 BC to 8 AD and in anycase it is much before 600 AD. There are a number of historical proof for that as in teh citations. Especially, from the Srilankan chronicles. If literature is not taken as a proof of history, Indian history doesnt start till 8th century, while Vedic literature is used as a proof for constructing the South Asian history for period much before.

http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa012803a.htm

Balajiviswanathan 02:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Srilankan crisis

The sentence starts awkwardly and without context. We are talking about creation of Madras state and abruptly it shifts to Srilanka. Atleast, one sentece should come in between. You should atleast put it as since the 70's, as a non-expert would easily get confused by that section. Balajiviswanathan 02:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Inline citation.

Thanks. I will change the rest.Dineshkannambadi 14:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Tamil script needed

Vidya Balan - she's half-Iyer so Tamil script will be useful. I would do it but I cant reade/write tamil.Bakaman _Bakatalk 17:03, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Point taken.Bakaman _Bakatalk 20:57, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Chalukya

Parthi, what happens now after we get all "support" in FAC review. when does the FAC director get involved. When does an article get pipelined into FAC queue.Dineshkannambadi 02:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Develop some self respect and stop stalking me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASrkris&diff=88907919&oldid=88633898

Please stop. If you continue to make personal attacks on other people, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Thank you.

Picking errors only on particular user's contributions (whom you dont like) by stalking their edits one after the other serially is also a Personal Attack! ॐ Kris (☎ talk | contribs)

While I educate myself, you, the all knower, see this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikistalking#Skyring --ॐ Kris (☎ talk | contribs) 11:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

There are hundreds of editors on wikipedia to bother with my mistakes, so you can mind your own business. Next time I find you stalking me, I will report your actions. --ॐ Kris (☎ talk | contribs) 11:28, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASanskrit&diff=88991659&oldid=88989872

I already have warned you to stop stalking me. You know zilch about what I meant there. Stop it and behave like an adult --ॐ Kris (☎ talk | contribs) 11:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Congrats

Hi! Congrats for getting History of Tamil Nadu to FA status. It was another awe-inspiring work after Chola dynasty.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Congrats too! Great to see a fellow quizzer writing FAs. Perhaps I'll get there someday too!! -- Lost^(talk) 16:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Pile-on congrats. Great work. Hope to see more FAs from you. Keep up the good work. - Aksi_great (talk) 18:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Chalukya

Parthi, Chalukya has been accepted as featured article. I would like to thank you for your valuable contributions across the board and across linguistic lines. It has been a pleasure working with you. KNM has created a main page request, a link to which exits in my discussion page. How does it look. Any further tips?"Dineshkannambadi 18:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

One correction to Dinesh's statement. The link you are referring to is this and it is just acting as a sandbox for us to work on the request. The actual request has to be made in this page: Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests, and again, Dinesh would be the best person to make that request. :) - KNM ^Talk 18:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)