User talk:Yidisheryid/Archive 5

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Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6

My RfA

Thanks for supporting my successful RfA, which closed at 63 supports and 1 opposed. I appreciate it and hope to do my best. I especially want to thank Shalom for the nomination, DGG for the encouragement, and Jokestress for welcoming me. Bearian 13:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Application of m:Right to vanish

It was implemented after discussion with a member of Arbcom. -- Avi 19:34, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

A discussion with a member of Arbcom need not be on an Arbcom page; regardless, it is not your concern. If you have an issue, take it up with Arbcom yourself.-- Avi 19:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC) -- Avi 19:44, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

You are incorrect, I believe. One person who initially asked the question has agreed to the status quo. The only other admin you have asked has no comment. And the editor who brought the issue to WP:CSN, which should not have happened, I might add, has not answered my point about m:Right to Vanish. As a word of advice, you have already demonstrated in the eyes of the community a tendency to disruption. You have the ability to be a gainful contributor, but I am afraid following vendettas is not the method to achieve that. Thank you. -- Avi 14:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

You are incorrect about consensus in this case. Please refrain from contacting me about this issue in the future, if you have nothing further of validity to add to the situation. If you wish, you may contact Arbcom directly at the e-mail link I have provided for you above. Thank you. -- Avi 15:09, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

yi:װיקיפּעדיע:טעכנישע פראגעס

Thank you for adding this to the Help desk page. I just wanted to note that it belongs on Wikipedia:Help desk/Header rather than the help desk page itself. I have moved it to that page, which is transcluded to the help desk. Leebo T/C 03:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, i could not figure it out, sorry.--יודל 03:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Dear friend

Thank you so much for asking me to help out. I will do everything I can. Unfortunately, I agree that Cherem (genocide) should be included in the Cherem article. However, I'm not totally convinced that was your main issue.

I am deeply concerned that you feel a friend of yours is being slandered. That matters to me. People abuse the Wiki system to slander individuals from time to time and I deplore that. Wiki doesn't really have a serious legal process to defend people's reputations. They do the best they can, but things go wrong.

Additionally, there is so much ignorance of Judaism, Christianity (and even Islam) that people presume fundamentalist extremists pushing POVs, when often, these are in fact mainstream views, just not publicized outside faith communities.

Please alert me any time you feel an individuals reputation is being slandered and I will get involved in the discussion.

I am humbled and honoured that you should ask me for help. Shalom. Alastair Haines 02:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I do not have any relation to the subject or the user, i called u because you have stated in your user page that this is your interest. thanks for stating your opinion which is totally opposed to mine, i believe that if those subjects are legitimate and are really notable no other motives should be applied. i urge you to not delete it because you don't have time to fix it. If i would be more familiar with those subjects i would have been honest and put my word to my heart and made it into a large normally written article, please do the same, i have already fixed all concerns it is now sourced properly and all it needs is it should not stay like a stub this should not be that hard for somebody like you, please reconsider your actions and enrich the article rather then delete it.--יודל 17:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for leaving a message at my User talk page, I don't always remember to check if people reply at their own pages. It seems Cherem (genocide) will not remain. I do hope things will improve for you here at Wiki. I am certain you know many things I do not know, I would love to read your contributions. People often have different opinions and all should be stated at Wiki, but normally all on the same page so readers can see them all at once. I am guessing you are fluent in Hebrew. I am sure there are Hebrew articles at Hebrew Wiki that we do not have at English Wiki. I wish someone would translate them. I only know Biblical Hebrew, and I need vowels and dictionaries. Please remember me, and ask for help any time. Sometimes I am busy, but I will try very hard to do what I can. Peace and blessings to you my friend. Alastair Haines 18:02, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
PS a block at Wiki is to be made Cherem, yes? ;) Alastair Haines 18:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


Hi, Thanks for your supporting vote on the Shneur Zalman Friedman deletion. Unfortunately it looks like the article is probably doomed by the WP:NOT#NEWS assertion anyway (keep 2-delet 5), but I appreciate the support just the same! --S.dedalus 04:24, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you have a clear consensus to delete it those votes are all called in to vote by the party line it is hard to call them puppets, but since this debate was posted in WikiProject that isn't at all related to the subject i see here a breach in vote sacking and all those votes should be discarded.--יודל 16:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Ahh, I see, thanks for the heads up. I hadn’t seen this. But does that break any Wikipedia policy? I’ll defiantly point it out if it’s a breach of procedure. --S.dedalus 19:39, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Redirect for deletion

See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2007 October 3#Chazara bish'ela → Yetzia bish'eila. Thank you, IZAK 10:49, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks i have commented.--יודל 17:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

canvassing or friendly notice to interested party's?

This header was written by me and not by avi--יודל 14:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Nuvola apps important.svg Your contributions history shows that you have been aggressively cross-posting. Although the Arbitration Committee has ruled that "The occasional light use of cross-posting to talk pages is part of Wikipedia's common practice."1, such cross-posting should adhere to specific guidelines. In the past, aggressively worded cross-posting has contributed towards an Arbitration Committee ruling of disruptive behavior that has resulted in blocks being issued. It is best not to game the system, and instead respect Wikipedia's principle of consensus-building, by ceasing to further crosspost, and instead allowing the process to reflect the opinions of editors that were already actively involved in the matter at hand. -- Avi 19:44, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Again i have told you this many times i will keep on alerting the intretsed party's, which in this case were all the users who have expressed that their interest is biblical articles being deleted, and they all said their opinion against my point, so this was my duty to alert them which in no way was trying to influence voting here. thanks--יודל 14:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

A Question

The Chareidi article uses hassidic as an alternative. I am familiar with the term hassidic from Chaim Potok's The Chosen, which I read and enjoyed many years ago. Could you help me understand the difference between to the two words? Alastair Haines 00:10, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry i answer you 4 days later we had a holiday and a Saturday for consecutive 3 days which access to electronics are prohibited in my culture. Yes Hasidim are the most extreme most original form and subgroup of Chareidim, therefore you can see these 2 words allot inter used.--יודל 14:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I believe that is incorrect. Hareidi is a term used in place of "Ultra-Orthodox." Orthodox Judaism is the subset of Jews that adhere to the traditions as passed down through the millenia. It has two main subsections, those which have taken more lenient views regarding certain twentieth/tenty-first century-specific issues, of course remaining within the bounds of Orthodoxy, and they are called "Modern Orthodox" and then those that have retained the stricter interpretations of those modern societal issues. These used to be called "Ultra-Orthodox" but are more recently termed "Hareidi". In the Hareidi world there are two main subgroups: those that follow the primarily emotionally-spiritual framework of Hasidism, as first espoused by the Baal Shem Tov and then somewhat variegated and disseminated throughout many sub-branches, often based on locales in Europe, and those who followed a less emotionally more intellectually-spiritual framework espoused by the centers of learning, the yeshivos of Europe. While this is a gross oversimplification, it is factually inaccurate to say as did Yidisher, that Hasidism is more "original" and more "extreme". They have differences in the direction of the approach to the emotional/intellectual aspects of divine service, but outside of dress and accent and some minor minhag differences, they are almost identical. The outer trappings seem very different; the actual service to G-d is near identical. -- Avi 14:47, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I cannot disgree more with Avi, the Hasidim are indeed the more stricter Jews they don't speak and dress like the gentiles and are living more into the past then their counterparts the yeshivish who some of them go to college and join popular culture but i am a Chusid and far from partial here.--יודל 15:01, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Yeshivish do NOT go to college and do NOT join popular culture, in fact if you walk into a Brooklyn sports bar you might find more Hasidim than Yeshivish Hareidim joining popular culture. In terms of who is stricter, besides for outer dressing code (with non Hasidim wearing short jackets, and shaving), there is no difference. In fact non Hasidim will argue that they are stricter since Hasidim do not follow Zman Tefillah.--Shmaltz 15:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I did not visit all the sports bars in new york but the fact is that most Yeshivahs have specie time allocated for college study, have you vistet lately in Baltimore? are you privy of Shor Yosuv and all other Qvenns small yeshivahs who their students go to college or for that matter Chaim Berlin? please name me one Hasidic Yeshiva where college study isn't the worst sin? and regarding Zman Tefilah need i remind you of what the Chofets Chaiyim used to say when complains that the Hasidim pray late after the Halachick time of what he answered... Yes yes the Hasidim pray ate but they still pray! Fact is the Hasidim are more ancient and preserved in their own world and the Litvish Yeshivishe are more open and attuned to todays world, if its only because they speak the language of the land so be it, but the differences don't stop only there--יודל 15:20, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
It appears you have never seen or been around Yeshivishe ppl in your life.--Shmaltz 15:30, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I do live mostly only between Hasidim and reary do i visit other forms of Jewish culture, but i have business associates who are from Cham berlin and from Baltimore and from queens they all got a college education and are very into the American culture. They do not speak any form of Jewish language and do dress with the latest styles of the American fashion industry and so fourth, where i live in Williamsburg we have about 7 thousand families who live in Europe although geography we are in Williamsburg Brooklyn New york our lives are dedicated to persevere walls and islands where the popular culture of the ans has no step foot and we have nothing at all to do with the Baal she tov as avi tries to paint us--יודל 15:39, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Fascinating, Hasidim who have nothing to do with the Baal Shem. What next, Lubavitch who have nothing to do with the Tzemach Tzedek? -- Avi 20:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah gentlemen! Thank you for your answers. If you will permit a friendly and admiring goy like me to say it. I love the passion you have for your faith and your traditions. I am forever learning from you. Listening to your debates is like overhearing a "family conference". ;)
יודל just taught me that you have been celebrating simchat torah, what an excellent festival! I am a slow learner of biblical Hebrew, so I understand what it means. I envy you all the blessing you have in b'rit olam.
Thanks again for a very full answer, including some debate, shalom. Alastair Haines 15:41, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Alester, for your kind words i do appreciate it since we all have to remind ourselves from time to time the our own goodness that we grow so acostumed and asleep that only others can awaken us to ourselves. Please know that u r a chusid umes huoilem. and when the messiah will arrive you will be his shabbes goy...--יודל 15:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow! What a wonderful thing to say. I am happy to wait and trust your messiah. Everyone's in trouble unless haShem is kind. ;) In Australia we say "you're a good bloke." G'day my friend. :) Alastair Haines 17:53, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
PS I think it is time for an archive of this talk page. Perhaps you might want to copy out of date discussion above into this page:

BMG edit.

You made this change here with the comment: becouse the main thing of this is a yeshiva not a kolel what do you mean by that? How does a Kollel get defined vs a Yeshivah? Furthermore, is BMG a kollel or not?--Shmaltz 15:32, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

How do most peape refer to it as a KOlel or as a Yeshivah? The truth is many Yeshivas have today Kolels in it this does not define the main goal and mission of it, was it opened to serve non married boys or married men? i do not think Lakewood's main goal is for married men if yes i am mistaken--יודל 15:40, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
They refer to it by it's name, The Yeshiva. However if one is asked if he is in Kollel he will answer yes. In every definition of the word Kollel this is a kollel, do you agree or disagree? The goal of the Yeshiva is for one to die in, learn there until you are 199 years old. If more than %75 is married then it's for married men or non married men?--Shmaltz 15:45, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
A category isn't for the purpose to give definitions, it is simply a tool and structure to facilitate the searcher and organization of the articles. If this is the goal then i will say i was mistaken but still how does the world look at it as a yeshiva or as a Kolel, i think most will put it into a category of yeshivas and not kolelilm but if you feel that most world will look for it in the category Koeleim please change it. thanks--יודל 15:49, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I am certainly no expert, but from what the articles say, Yeshiva is an appropriate name for the whole school, even though 75% of the school is a Kollel. Did the Yeshiva come first, or the Kollel? I suspect Yidisheryid has a good point. He is being very Wiki and letting you make up your own mind. I also like Yid's point about categories. What do you think Shmaltz?
A Question -- if someone comes to Wiki and wants to find every orthodox Kollel in the United States, where should he look? Alastair Haines 14:00, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Vayoel Moshe1.JPG

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Vayoel Moshe1.JPG. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI 12:04, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

This image is under a fair use rationale of explaining the wikipeida article about its subject--יודל 12:09, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Did you take the photo Yid? If you did, you can make it public domain at Wiki Commons. I will help you if you need it. I will learn how this is done. Then I can do it too. :D Alastair Haines 13:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
No i took from the Netherlands wiki, followed through the inter-wiki link. but it is a beautifully shot indeed, illustrating its Holiness.--יודל 13:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Friend, I have fixed this problem. The image should stay. Thanks for providing it here. :D Alastair Haines 09:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you so much for the help.--יודל 13:50, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

My sand box about Modern orthodox jewish outreach

I will start here to collect notable information about this phenomena, please note that i am needing Izak's help in this since he has created many many articles on the subject of kiruv so i will wait for his OK in creating such an article.--יודל 20:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

First i will try to write the success story in Boca Raton, Florida, which no outreach effort has yet matched thet outreach success strory of that single rabbi, which he was therefore later recruited by YU to head and mimic this effort globally.
and then i will write about this phenomena [1]--יודל 20:34, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, boy you do keep me busy. First of all it is a very good idea. Second of all it should be written as Modern Orthodox Judaism outreach (and it will be a sub-article of a main article Orthodox Jewish outreach which should be officially renamed to Orthodox Judaism outreach because the word "Jewish" is too informal and it is referring to Orthodox Judaism whereas "Jewish" is more connected to the word "Jew" which is an ethnic notion.) And you do not have to go to Boca, you can start with NCSY, YU has programs. Third of all there must then also be Religious Zionism outreach (don't scream, but I think they do more SUCCESSFUL outreach than anybody else in Israel.) Fourth of all it means that some chunks will be taken out of the main Orthodox Jewish outreach article and put into the "Modern" and other ones and new material can easily be found for all of them. Finally, at this rate, there can be a further split into Haredi Judaism outreach (Kollelim, Baal teshuva yeshivas, Partners in Torah, Lev Le'achim) and even down to Hasidic Judaism outreach (Chabad, Breslov, Belz, Skver, and even Bobov and Satmar have achievements)-- all excellent topics for articles with verifiable information and exciting content. Good thinking, here! IZAK 04:52, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Your wish is my commend. Done.--יודל 10:21, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Jews Against Zionism book.jpg)

Nuvola apps important blue.svg Thanks for uploading Image:Jews Against Zionism book.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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done--יודל 11:18, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Jews Against Zionism book.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Jews Against Zionism book.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

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Where did you find this Image, Yid? We can probably fix this up easily too. Alastair Haines 09:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
On My fair use rationale is; A book cover should be added to the article of the book, I know faces of people aren't allowed to be added because since they are living they can make up their own mind if to free it, or not, and if they did not free it then we have to assume they do not want it published, and protect the rights of living people. But a book cover isn't a entity to restrict its usage. (although as a courtesy i have notified its author about this, he should be able to comment if he has any objections) I hope i do understand those fair use policies well.--יודל 13:47, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
You are correct. What they want is a special tag that gives all the needed information. I'll watch the AfD discussion and provide the tag, or re-upload the image if AfD decide to keep the article. Alastair Haines 15:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Then and than

One of the people who has criticized you said, "The word then is a temporal adverb. In almost every case where you use it, the word you're looking for is than."

He's quite right semantically, but this interests me. We can't expect other editors to be English teachers, but since I am one, I'm curious Yid. When you use these words, is it just pronounciation and spelling, or is it the meanings of the words that are difficult. (German has wenn/wann issues, that are similar.) Your English seems so good to me, that I'd have thought it was just spelling/pronounciation. But I'm happy to find out I'm wrong. ;) Alastair Haines 08:52, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I do not mind people teaching me, i am interested in English and even though i know their intention may be negative i appreciate their constructive teaching which i take very much to heart, and throw away their other personal attacks.--יודל 13:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Hi Alastair Haines: Allow me to say something. From my experience/s with this user, I would say that there are more than one person using this account. One or two can type English quite well, and then there is the "Satmar Hasid" (as he insists that that's what he is) hooked on Yiddish who may or may not be Jewish or Christian or anything who just gets stuck with English spelling. That's my take on this account. I am convinced this a Troll (Internet) no matter which way you slice it. IZAK 13:20, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Izak has already said that users know me and my work for the last 3 years is open and visible to everybody by clicking on my edit history, my work is very clear i edit all kinds of issues which my background allows me to have knowledge on. My English is not so good as my Yiddish but i correct all kinds of mistakes and try to be perfect. Right now i would consider my English better than Izak's.--יודל 13:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Mazel Tov. Don't insult my mother, she paid for me to get a good English education. Oh, and maybe my Yiddish is better than yours, have you thought of that? IZAK 14:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes your Yiddish may be better but not your English. I have nothing wrong against your mother, all Jewish mothers pay for an english education, that does not mean that the kid actually learns. If i would have leared from all the education my mother paid i would have been a scohler, but what does my actions have to do withn my mother?--יודל 14:59, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and I see from your history [2] that you joined the English Wikipedia in April, 2006 which does not make it "3 years" and, I only got to hear from you when you contacted me via private Email when I trying to bring back to life the article about Rabbi Chaim Dov Keller in August 2007, two months ago, and you started attacking me soon after, following the antiZionism votes. You know, quite often you say confusing things just to keep everyone bamboozled seems to me. IZAK 14:55, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
My edit history on the English Wikipedia is less then 3 full years, but they are indeed long and allot considering that English is not my mother tongue. I am active in other wikipedia languages since 2005, look at my Yiddish contributions, as you can follow them from my English user page and you do fully understand Yiddish. You had me hooked up for years now to your group email list called sim shalom, and to suddenly declare that you don't know me is ridicules because my history in my inbox proves you wrong. I never ever responded to you when u asked for votes against Missionaries, since i do not agree with you on this, This is clearly vote sacking. For which i would like to believe that 10 days blockage should be enough you should learn your lesson. I only answered you lately when i was convinced you aren't only about Missionaries, by the Keller article, and i do very much respect, love and cherish your contributions to our project. Thank u again!--יודל 15:21, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, good to be appreciated. But if you read what I said very carefully above, "I only got to hear from you when you contacted me via private Email" so I assumed you had no interest in what I had to say. I am glad you are paying attention now. IZAK 16:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I am glad you finely feel my admiration and love towards you but believe me it was always there. If you look deep into your history folder from more than a year ago i believe you may find only lovingly friendly and encouraging emails from me, but when u started getting possessed with the Christians i started to feel that perhaps your Wikipedia work is driven by a single issue, which i came to realize that since the last 2 months of that Keller article, that i was wrong to suspect bad faith in you, and i was wrong and i apologized to you then right away.--יודל 17:00, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks יצחק I appreciate your comment, and that you are honourable to say it where Yid (or Yids) hears it. I'm a strange kind of person, I like offering respect to people when they have trouble with others. I'm not being friendly because I assume Yid is right, or a Jew (or a Christian, there's no evidence of that). He asked for my help with herem, very politely. I didn't quite agree with him, and he changed his mind. That's the basis of our friendship. I'm just trying to reduce frustration in other cases. Helpful honest comments from both of you, thanks. :) Alastair Haines 15:03, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Alastair: It's not strange to be kind at all, it is the way Abraham started Monotheism and brought Judaism into the world, by being kind to strangers and pleading for mercy for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. Being kind is the way God wants it to be. It is the attribute of mercifulness. IZAK 15:16, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks to Alester for being kind and thanks to Izak for being kinder, i do love you both immensely--יודל 15:21, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
IZAK I agree with you with all my heart, and with my head as well. HaShem chose Abraham and the Jews to be his personal representatives of mercy to a godless world. Hospitality (without compromise) is a core value of Judaism, correct me if I've misunderstood. But what does the world give in return? But let's stick to nice things. :) Alastair Haines 15:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)