Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Russell family (Passions)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 01:20, 23 January 2017 [1].

Russell family (Passions)

Nominator(s): Aoba47 (talk) 14:37, 31 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a fictional family from the American soap opera Passions, which aired on NBC from 1999 to 2007 and on DirecTV in 2007–08. The characters initially received negative feedback for their representation of an African-American family. They also received mixed feedback from cast members, with some praising their roles for expanding the image of African-American characters on television, while others felt they were not used to their full potential. The Russell family also garnered media and critical attention for its storylines involving various LGBT topics: Even though critical response was mixed to negative, the actors and show received several awards and nominations for the Russell family. I have worked on this article a lot over the past year, and I believe that it is comprehensive and covers all the aspects of the FA criteria. Thank you in advance for your comments. Aoba47 (talk) 14:37, 31 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Carbrera

Support – as the GA reviewer. I'll also be glancing over the article and making any changes to it I find necessary (if that's alright with you). Regards, Carbrera (talk) 03:53, 2 January 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Thank you! And of course, feel free to make any changes that you feel will improve the article (and this extends to everyone who comments on this). Hope you are having a wonderful start to your year. Aoba47 (talk) 04:01, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: Is there anything in the Passions novel that could be of use in this article? Carbrera (talk) 02:32, 4 January 2017 (UTC).[reply]

@Carbrera: Very good question. Too the best of my knowledge, the novel contains some very useful information on some of the specific family members (namely Eve Russell, T. C. Russell, and Vincent Clarkson. It can also be considered to have information about Liz Sanbourne if you consider the fact that she was absent in the show's original vision of Eve's family and later added in). I feel that this information is more appropriate for the pages on those specific characters and I want to try and keep a majority of the background and reception bits on things dealing with the family as a whole. The novel really does not go into any detail about the Russell family or the Johnson family (which is Eve's side of this family) that I feel would benefit the article much. Hopefully this response makes some sense, and thank you for the question. Aoba47 (talk) 02:51, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: I agree with your rationale but perhaps it could be mentioned in the "In other media and merchandise" section? Carbrera (talk) 05:01, 4 January 2017 (UTC).[reply]

@Carbrera: Thank you for the suggestion! I never thought about adding it there for some reason, and now it is super obvious lol. I have added a short paragraph to the section. Let me know what you think. Thank you again. Aoba47 (talk) 05:45, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ssven2

Support — Couldn't find any major flaws with it. You can try to expand the critical reception section (find more reviews on it). Also, try to find more reviews after the initial reviews. Otherwise, the article looks quite solid to me. — Ssven2 ^{Looking at you, kid} 12:12, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ssven2: Thank you for the support and your suggestion. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find further reviews beyond the initial responses to the show from around the time it first premiered. Any of the reviews that I have found from a later time period either do not reference the Russell family or give them a passing mention. I will keeping looking for further information and will add anything if I can track more references down. Thank you again. Aoba47 (talk) 12:23, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Anytime. Even if the review is about individual characters and not the family as a whole, it is alright to include such reviews. — Ssven2 ^{Looking at you, kid} 12:27, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ssven2: I am not sure if reviews on individual characters would be appropriate for this page. I would believe that those reviews would fit better on the articles devoted to the particular characters. I have included a little bit of information regarding the reception of the individual characters in the body of the article under their respective sections. I wanted to reserve the "Reception" section to the reception of the family as a whole if that makes any sense. Aoba47 (talk) 12:32, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. Good work on the article. — Ssven2 ^{Looking at you, kid} 12:35, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you and thank you again for your comments. Aoba47 (talk) 12:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Cartoon network freak

Resolved comments from Cartoon network freak

Lead

appeared on the American television → "the" is overfluous here

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

core families in Harmony; they are characterized → better flow: core families in Harmony, being characterized

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Eve's vengeful, adoptive sister Liz Sanbourne; Eve's child with Julian Crane, Vincent Clarkson; Whitney's husband and Liz's son, Chad Harris-Crane; and Eve's aunt Irma Johnson. → This is not how semicolons are used; write like this: "Eve's vengeful, adoptive sister Liz Sanbourne, Eve's child with Julian Crane Vincent Clarkson, Whitney's husband and Liz's son Chad Harris-Crane, and Eve's aunt Irma Johnson.

Revised. Not sure how that got there. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

in the series finale → in the final series

I am not entirely certain what you mean here. "Series finale" is the correct term as I am referencing the final episode of the series. Also, remember that this show is an American show so the term "series" does mean the same thing as in the context of Australian, British, and a number of others countries. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

They also received mixed feedback from cast members → They also faced mixed responses from cast members (alternation)

I have adjusted this my own way. I'm not a fan of the verb "faced" as it sounds just a little odd to me. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

announcement for Black History Month in 2003 → here you need a "the"

It is not necessary for this. Black History Month does not need "the" in front of it. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Chad Harris-Crane's affair with Vincent and subsequent confusion about his sexual orientation; Simone's coming out as lesbian to her family; and the revelation that Vincent was intersex. → all semicolons to normal commas

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Creation and development

Amelia Marshall said the creation of seven African-American → use "confessed" here for alternation

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

in the series finale → same as above

See above comment. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Core family members

and a respected doctor at Harmony Hospital → you need a "the" here

The name of the hospital is literally "Harmony Hospital" (not that original lol) so "the" is not necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In 2003, actresses Amanda Maiden and Kimberly Kevon Williams played Eve → use "portrayed" here for alternation

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rodney Van Johnson from July 5, 1999, to June 19, 2007 → no comma here

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

saying that "I was used well" as Trey → better flow: saying that "[he] was used well" as Trey.

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

forefront as "a new supercouple in Harmony" → unlink as aforementioned before

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

the first African-American, lesbian character → no comma here

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

is ... I can assure you we're not going to make light → ... to [...]

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Whitney Russell is the eldest daughter → isn't "eldest" a very old word? You may use "oldest" here if you want to

I am not sure what you mean by this. I feel that "eldest" is still a good word and I feel that it is the most appropriate for this context. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

he is later revealed to be the blackmailer, and serial rapist, of the show's 2007 → no commas here

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

who had been a Playboy Playmate ,one of the most successful → comma is not inserted correctly

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Valerie in thirty-four episodes of Passions → "thirty-four" to "34"

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

ninety-five episodes of → same as above

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Extended family

Divins (the principal actor to play Chad during the storylines focusing on the character's sexuality) made a cameo → replace () here with two —
approached with the role: "... there were → approached with the role, "[...] there were

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image > costume → plural

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

sister of the late Warren Johnson → remove "the" here

I think the "the" is necessary. Whenever I have seen this sentence construction, I have always seen "the" being used. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Eve and Irma did not speak for nearly twenty years. Eve paid for Irma to live → Eve and Irma did not speak for nearly 20 years, with Even paying for the latter to live

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In other media and merchandise

I think it would be better to name this section "Usage in other media...", but you can leave it as it is if you find that better

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

the achievements of African Americans → ... African-Americans

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

in commemoration of Black History Month → you need a "the" here

See above comments. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

and T. C. Russell in the series finale → same as aforementioned in the lead section

See above comments. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reception

Sheraton Kalouria said: "quite frankly, many of them → : to ,

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: Wow, GREAT article ;) Please ping me when you've solved my comments... Best, Cartoon network freak (talk) 13:15, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Cartoon network freak: Thank you for your review! I have addressed all of your comments. Let me know if there is anything else I can do. Thank you again! Aoba47 (talk) 18:16, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

With my comments being resolved, I support this nomination. Best, Cartoon network freak (talk) 19:30, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 19:46, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:RussellsPassions.jpg: Non-free image, used to identify the topic of the article. That seems like correct use and licensing to me. I see that all points of NFCC are addressed by the use rationale.
File:LizIrmaFamilyPhoto.png: Non-free image, used to illustrate some characters that aren't shown by the above image. That seems like a legit case of NFCC#8, but I wonder if one image could be used to replace the two currently in use, per NFCC#3. All other points of NFCC are met.

Good ALT text also present. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:03, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Thank you for the image review! Aoba47 (talk) 14:55, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: As a possible suggestion/answer to your comment on the second image, do you think that it would be best to replace the top image with the one from the following link here in order to reduce the amount of non-free content on the page. The suggested image would show a majority of the family, except for two characters. I admit that I added the second image to not only show characters not present in the current top image, but also to add some variety to the section (admittedly not the best reason to add non-free content). I believe that image use is fine as it currently stands, but I would appreciate your input. Thank you in advance! Aoba47 (talk) 19:50, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think that would be digging and filling trenches. If no images showing every character at once exist, we may just as well use two. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 21:06, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: That is what I thought as well, but I wanted to clarify with you to make absolutely sure. To the best of my knowledge, there are not any images showing all of the characters at once since Irma was a relatively minor character with limited appearances and promotional images and Vincent was a relatively late addition and it appears that they were not doing group promotional images as much when the show was wrapping up production. Thank you again for your help. Aoba47 (talk) 21:18, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Source review: All the sources appear to be reliable, but there is something missing. All references must have links. Do it and I will make it pass. Ping me since I am in a wikibreak.Tintor2 (talk) 22:34, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: Thank you for your review. Just for clarification, some of the references will not have links. I have included specific episodes from the show and some offline sources as references (such as Reference 22), which cannot be completed through links. I believe that everything else has a link already, but let me know if I am overlooking anything (I have been working on this article for a rather long time so there is a high likelihood that I am missing something). Thank you again. Aoba47 (talk) 22:46, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, compare ref 5 with 4. The latter has wikilinks whereas the former does not have them.Tintor2 (talk) 23:20, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: Oh! I'm stupid. Thank you for the clarification. I will correct those either by the end of tonight or tomorrow. Aoba47 (talk) 23:33, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: Just finished adding wikilinks to all of the references, with the only exceptions being for things that do not have Wikipedia pages. Let me know if there is anything else I can do. Thank you again for your help. Aoba47 (talk) 00:07, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I pass it. Good luckTintor2 (talk) 02:32, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note

Reading over the lead and spotchecking the main body, I think this needs a copyeditor to tighten the prose; for instance:

"The Russells are one of the four core families in Harmony" -- don't assume prior knowledge of the characters or series; I'd expect something like "in the fictional town of Harmony" (plus the state if it's given).

Revised. There is not a state given for the town other than it is a Northeastern state that used the death penalty at the time of the show's airing. Aoba47 (talk) 05:45, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"They also been praised by the cast members, while Rodney Van Johnson felt they were not used to their full potential." -- "They have also been praised"? Also I'd have thought a more emphatic "but Robert Van Johnson..." was appropriate.

Revised. This was my fault, as I recently added over the past week without revising it again. Aoba47 (talk) 05:45, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"After the program moved to DirecTV, Vincent's storylines focus on his plan" -- would've expected us to say "focused" to continue with the past tense established by "moved".

I revised it according to your suggestion to avoid the mixing of tenses. Aoba47 (talk) 05:45, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

These are just things that caught my eye during a very quick look, so I'd like someone to go through the whole article. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:44, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian Rose: Thank you for your comments! This has actually been copy-edited a few times since its original expansion last year, but it always good to get another set of eyes. I have attempted to do some minor copy editing of my own and have altered a few things, but it would be more beneficial to get someone new as I have been so close to this for roughly a year now that I am most likely missing some very obvious errors. Hopefully, a user will provide a more prose-based commentary/review. Thank you again and let me know if there are any more glaring errors. Aoba47 (talk) 05:45, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian Rose: Just wanted to let you know I think the prose has been tightened and greatly improved due to the help of Mike Christie. Aoba47 (talk) 17:27, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Mike Christie

I'm copyediting as I go; please revert as needed.

The list of the four additional characters given in the lead is confusing because the relationships themselves are confusing; it took me a few seconds, for example, to be sure that "Whitney's husband" applied to Chad and not Vincent. I'd suggest making this clearer by separating each character description from the next with a semicolon, and starting each character description with the character's name: "four more characters were added to the family: Liz Sanbourne, Eve's vengeful, adoptive sister; Vincent Clarkson, ...; Chad Harris-Crane, ...; and Irma Johnson, ...."

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"The characters initially received negative feedback for their representation of an African-American family. They also been praised by the cast members, but Rodney Van Johnson felt they were not used to their full potential." Looks like you're missing a verb in the second sentence; should this be "they were praised"? I don't think "also" is needed given that the opinions are different to the preceding sentence; and I'd suggest saying who Johnson is as the reader doesn't know yet that this is T.C. Russell.

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You might consider putting a little table in just after the lead with the names of the characters and names of the actors that portray them; that would be helpful for a reader unfamiliar with the show.

Added. Aoba47 (talk) 17:49, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the format to shrink it and move it to one side; just a matter of taste but I think it looks a little better that way. Please revert if you prefer it the way you had it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:29, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it looks better that way. Aoba47 (talk) 17:37, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd cut "An official press release from NBC said the Russell family had "a strong presence in the community" of Harmony"; press releases can be useful for some things, but it's not independent and doesn't say anything you don't already cover.

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~"She also compared the relationship between Julian and Eve to that of Romeo and Juliet": suggest cutting this; it's such a casual mention and doesn't really tell the reader anything.~~

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

'Despite being one of the original 25 contract cast members, Johnson criticized the show for not properly using his character, claiming that he was often relegated to the role of "the angry black man."' I don't see support for this in the source; am I missing something? Johnson uses that phrase, but I don't see anything about his character being misused. In fact I wonder if you're missing a source here; I also don't see the retconning mentioned, or the mention of Trey Stark, or any mention of stigma (though he does say being in soap opera led people to pre-judge his acting ability).

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:30, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~"the chemistry between Ross and Masters": who is Masters?~~

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~"Kerr later described the week of auditioning and two screen tests to be formally cast in the role as an extremely quick process": I don't see anything in the source supporting this.~~

Revised the source. It comes from the following sentence: "It was very fast for me. Audition, two screentests, and booking all in a week. No long night waiting! "Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"She viewed the storyline in which Whitney became a nun as allowing her to approach the character from a different perspective": this seems to be based on this in the source: 'One of the things Kerr likes about this storyline (called “Passions Vendetta”) is that she gets to play Whitney in a new and different way. "I get to be like my character in that I don’t know what’s coming up next either."' I don't think this is a good way to paraphrase this; there's nothing about her perspective in the source.

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~"His actions are later clarified as a result of Alistair Crane's orders": this doesn't mean anything to me, and I suspect wouldn't mean anything to any reader who hasn't watched the show.~~

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Vincent teams up with Viki Chatsworth to kill everyone in Harmony at the rehearsal for a mass wedding between Luis Lopez-Fitzgerald and Fancy Crane, Noah Bennett and Paloma Lopez-Fitzgerald, Miguel Lopez-Fitzgerald and Kay Bennett, and Edna Wallace and Norma Bates." Does this really mean everyone in Harmony -- everyone living in the town? Also, is it necessary to list all eight names? It's a long list; can we just say "at a mass wedding for four of the show's couples", or something like that?

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do we need the list of six African-Americans in the first paragraph of "Usage in other media"? I think you could just make this "to celebrate the achievements of African-Americans in commemoration of Black History Month".

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~The quote from Kalouria in praise of Passions' diversity in that paragraph isn't a reliable source for that sort of thing, since she's commenting on her own show; I think it should go.~~

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Accolades section needs a bit of work; the sentence starting "The award was given..." follows the mention of two awards; I soon realized that this is because it was one award, given twice, but that's not immediately clear.

Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:24, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Christie: Thank you for your comments. I have addressed all of them and made the appropriate changes. Aoba47 (talk) 17:50, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reading through again, a couple more points:

~~I see you use the quote from Johnson about "this thing is going down" twice; I'd cut it from one or other place you have it.~~

Revised Aoba47 (talk) 16:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~You also mention the "new supercouple" quote twice.~~

This is probably very obvious so I apologize for this, but I can't for some reason find the repetition in the quote so if possible, could you point out where this quote is repeated twice? Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 16:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My mistake -- it was two different "supercouple" comments. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No worries and thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 22:05, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~"she is referenced through her letter to Kay before her marriage to Miguel": who marries Miguel? Kay or Simone?~~

Revised Aoba47 (talk) 16:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:35, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Christie: Thank you again for your review. I have addressed all of your points. Let me know if there is anything else that can be improved. Aoba47 (talk) 16:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've struck everything above. I'll do another read through. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 22:05, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

One last point:

'Media outlets' questions about the nature of Liz's exit arose from the slashing of the soap opera's budget by "a reported $4 to $5 million" to secure its renewal': The given source gives the dollar figure, but says nothing about Liz. Do we need this sentence?

@Mike Christie: Good point. I added this sentence to provide some context to the previous sentence, but I have removed it. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
OK; that was the last issue. I've supported below. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:15, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:38, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:15, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! As always, you have helped to improve the article a great deal and be a better contributor on here. Have a great rest of your day! Aoba47 (talk) 17:16, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 01:20, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.