Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Burnley F.C. records and statistics/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 30 August 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of Burnley F.C. records and statistics[edit]

List of Burnley F.C. records and statistics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): WA8MTWAYC (talk) 19:17, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This list is about records and statistics of association football club Burnley F.C.. It includes honours, club records, managerial records, and player records. I have used other similar featured lists as a benchmark. Looking forward to the comments. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 19:17, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:55, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Drive-by comment: "All records and statistics are correct as of the 2019–20 season." - how can they be when the season hasn't finished yet.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:20, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sloppy mistake, I'll change it to 2018–19. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:00, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Lead:
    • "the First Division (now the Premier League)" - the First Division did not become the Premier League, the Prem was a completely newly-formed league, so this needs re-wording
The Premier League succeeded the First Division as the first tier of English football, so it was meant like that. But removed "now the PL" nevertheless. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • "all the top four professional divisions" - as there are only four professional divisions, I think the word "top" is not needed
Done WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • "the club's player who has gained the most caps while with the club" - the "club's" near the start is redundant given the bit at the end
Removed WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Honours section:
    • "to have won all top four professional divisions" - as above
Done WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The 1914 FA Cup trophy is presented" - maybe slightly pedantic, but this kinda makes it sound like it was only the trophy for the 1914 FA Cup. I suggest removing 1914 here ans sticking "in 1914" at the end
Done WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Season records section:
    • Nothing in this section needs a full stop, as they are not complete sentences
Fixed WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Match records section:
    • Again, no full stops needed
Fixed WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • You list the club's first match in such tinpot competitions as the Watney Cup, but don't list their first game in the Premier League - this seems a rather glaring omission......
Added the PL match WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Record league away win - unless they have won away by a larger margin in a cup then I would list this as "Record competitive away win:"
Put the FA Cup match against Penrith wrong (it was an away match). So I'm holding on to "record league away win". WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • You list the largest home attendance in the league and League Cup but no the FA Cup - is that info not available?
The club's largest home attendance was actually in an FA Cup match (against Huddersfield Town), so it would be unnecessary to list it again. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I need to break now to do some actual work, I will be back later........ -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:39, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the comments, ChrisTheDude. Looking forward to the follow-up. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
More comments
  • "substitutes appear in parentheses" - I think "substitute appearances appear in parentheses" would be better
Done WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a way to make clear that sub appearances are in addition to the figures before the brackets and not included within them?
Clarified it in an extra sentence (above the table) WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any reason why the sub appearances are not in bold in the total column? They are a part of the total so it seems odd to "de-emphasise" them in this way.
No reason. Fixed. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the career goals table, Freeman should be listed above Page on the grounds that he scored his goals in fewer games
Yes, also switched Kelly and Irvine WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Most capped player:" - this is very trivial, I'm not sure it's worth noting. Is it really worth highlighting that a player with 79 caps in his career happened to gain just a single one of them during an illustrious Burnley career of six weeks or so?
I don't even remember him playing for us haha. Removed it. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Notes - "It stood as a record for unbeaten games in a single season in English professional football until Arsenal went unbeaten through the whole of the 2003–04 season." - not strictly correct as worded, they only went unbeaten through the whole of the league season, so this needs rewording.
Reworded WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think this still needs a slight reword. It should say "It stood as a record for unbeaten league games in a single season in English professional football....."
Done WA8MTWAYC (talk) 07:50, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note d is marginally redundant given that no other leagues existed worldwide at the time, but if it stays then it shouldn't have a full stop
Removed the full stop WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again, ChrisTheDude. If something's wrong, please let me know. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the comments and support, ChrisTheDude! WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments WikiCup review
  • Where is material in the lead cited by the FCHD link, e.g. the date of formation, the turning pro, the pressure on the FA etc?
    • It's all cited in the prose (honours section). "Burnley have played in one of the four professional levels of English football from 1888 to the present day" is absent in the body of the text and therefore cited. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in 1885–86, and " personal bug-bear with these kind of easter egg links without adding "season" or tournament etc into the pipe.
  • Indeed, we have a better target for that first FA Cup season for the club, at 1885–86 FA Cup.
  • I feel like both Charity Shield wins need explanation, one being a "draw" and the other being atypical of the usual Charity Shield format.
    • Added two notes. Let me know what you think. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any reason Sheff Utd doesn't have an F.C. unlike the other clubs piped in the lead?
  • "in 1924." again we have a specific 1923–24 FA Cup article.
  • Lead image caption is a complete sentence so needs a full stop.
  • Lots of whitespace sadly next to the TOC, any thoughts on maybe constraining it to Level 2 sections?
  • Not sure about the profligate use of bold text, and per MOS:BOLD it's probably not useful.
  • "Burnley won the Dr Dean Trophy" repetitive.
  • "The club turned professional in 1883" previously you said they won an amateur trophy in the same year...
    • That trophy was won in the summer, the club turned professional a few months later. Tried to clarify it by putting "by the end of 1883". WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also removed the second sentence. The club won the Hospital Cup (the successor) multiple times over the following seasons, but mainly with a squad filled with second team/amateur players. Didn't want to disrupt the "flow" of the paragraph. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • " the 1920–21 First" again, that easter egg-ness. You have six types of target (English football season, specific division season, play-off finals, FA Cup season, trophy final, Burnley season) but all are piped in the same way so the reader stands practically no chance of knowing where they might land. Using better pipes will alleviate this.
  • You have descriptions of the FA Cup under the "League" heading, bit confusing.
  • It's worth linking somewhere to English football league system so the "tier 1" etc nomenclature can be better understood by non-experts.
  • 1994 Football League Second Division play-off Final is available.
  • Premier League seasons are all available, better than the generic "English football" season articles.
  • "European Cup quarter-final" etc, these somehow should be linking to the proper articles about the tournaments.
  • Managerial records looks light, e.g. which managers have the most wins, highest win % etc?
  • Austin's caption is a complete sentence so needs a full stop.
  • Per MOS:HASH, don't use the hash symbol to mean "number".
  • Link Substitute (association football).
  • Any thoughts on adding first ever goalscorer if it's known?
    • Added first goalscorers in the league and FA Cup. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Minor quibble: a lot of the records are sourced to a 2007 book. Thirteen years have passed since its publication so I'm just nervous that we can't be sure those records haven't been beaten in the meantime...
    • Relax (although I understand the nervosity), I have checked on them numerous times and few records have been broken since 2007. Some records however have and those were reported in the (local) media such as the points record of 93, and are obviously cited. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • " World Cup Finals" not the link you want it to be.
  • Be consistent with row scopes. For lists of players, I'd expect the player to be the scope, not the number they are in the list.
  • How do we know the transfers tables are complete? Is there any list reliably stating that each five are the top five?
    • There unfortunately isn't really one. Transfermarkt lists the record arrivals and departures of the club, but the figures of e.g. Danny Ings and Andre Gray aren't correct. There is a "logical order" in the inclusion and ranking of this list, when e.g. looking at the headlines and their publishing dates. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Notes c and e are identical so should be reused.
  • Refs 23, 24, 31, spaced hyphen/year range hyphen: should be en-dash. Check others.
  • Refs 73 to 82, publisher becomes the norm in the refs, i.e. The Guardian and not The Guardian etc. Be consistent.

That's enough for a first pass. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:37, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your review and comments, The Rambling Man. I addressed it and left some comments under your points. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi The Rambling Man, have you got anything else for me? WA8MTWAYC (talk) 07:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 22:23, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • If the part about Burnley being one of the six Lancashire clubs in the first edition of the Football League isn't cited anywhere (I don't see it in the body), then a reference should be added for it in the lead.
  • Note c is uncited and could use sources.
    • Done, and reused it at the other three tiers. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 22:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference 13 is missing a page number. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:18, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Giants2008 Thank you very much for your comments, I've addressed them all. If there's anything else I need to amend, please let me know. Thanks, WA8MTWAYC (talk) 22:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - Pass[edit]

Doing now Aza24 (talk) 07:10, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Everything looks good. Consistent formatting and use of reliable sources – I tweaked the ISBNS. Pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 07:18, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 20:53, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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