Wikipedia:Peer review/I Could Fall in Love/archive1

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I Could Fall in Love[edit]

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because…I would like to nominate the article at FAC

Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 23:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I'll do this one. --Noleander (talk) 18:40, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
  • {{Doing}} (Going to be out of town tomorrow, but bug me if I don't have something posted by the end of Sunday, EST.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 23:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)a
Comments by David Fuchs

Some initial thoughts:

  • " It was released by EMI Latin on 26 June 1995, as the album's lead single alongside "Tú Sólo Tú", showcasing Selena's musical transition from Spanish to English." — "musical transition" is wikilinked to crossover (music), which doesn't really seem right. By musical transition we're talking about singing in Spanish vs. English, correct? That's a lyrical change, not a musical one, unless her genre also changed.
  • "Lyrically, the song explores a women's intuition, but from a negative output, as she begins to fall in love with a man. In spite of the woman's true feelings for him, the fear of rejection overcomes her." I really have no idea what the "womens' intuition" from a "negative output" means. I think this could be simplified and made a lot less confusing. Also, why is the song's content discussed twice in the same paragraph, but separated by the song credits and genre influences?
  • "Although "I Could Fall in Love" peaked at number eight on the US Billboard Hot 100 Airplay chart, and number-one on RPM Adult Contemporary and the Latin Pop Airplay chart, it was ineligible for the Hot 100 chart." → Why? It seems odd that this is brought up in the lead but not explained at all afterwards.
  • "However, it failed to acquire any certifications, despite Selena's death, which took place several months earlier by her friend and ex-employer Yolanda Saldivar." → Why would her death give it more certifications? Because her songs would be more popular after she was dead? Still not fully explaining things.
  • The body section for "crossover" still doesn't quite explain. Is the crossover talking about tejano to pop, or is it also referring to the language? The accompanying Wikipedia article doesn't really make that clear and seems to equate mainstream success with crossover, which strikes me as dubious without good sources to back it up.
    • It's talking about her whole musical change from recording song from Spanish to English. Jonatalk to me 15:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 16:43, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments from Noleander

  • Note: Pausing the PR because User:Gareth Griffith-Jones is in the middle of modifying the article. Stay tuned ...
  • I think the lead (in 1st or 2nd paragraph) should state that this song was released posthumously ... that is kind of buried in the 3rd paragraph. The fact that she recorded it, then a few months later was killed, then it was released, is key.
  • Consider cite bundling: When there are 3 or 4 footnotes for a single sentence, it looks a bit awkward: " .. "confessional ballads"[33][34][35][36]". Consider using the WP:CITEBUNDLE formatting technique so that the four cites use just one footnote in the sentence.
    • Not sure how to do that, note that the link you provided does not give adequate step-by-step on how to perform that. Jonatalk to me 15:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, that doesn't have great instructions there. But it is super simple. What you do is find places in the article with 2 or more consecutive footnotes at the end of a sentence, and just reduce them to a single "ref" pair. For example, if a sentence ends with three footnotes like this:
... some sentence.<ref>footnote one</ref><ref>footnote two </ref><ref>footnote three</ref>.
Just eliminate all the middle "refs" and replace them with </br>, then only the very outermost "ref" pair remains. Like this:
... some sentence.<ref>footnote one</br>footnote two </br>footnote three</ref>.
That will do it. --Noleander (talk) 16:12, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
I added it and it doesn't seem to work. Jonatalk to me 14:50, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Clarify wording: The phrase "808 drums" is used twice. Music insiders may use that terminology, but readers may think that is the quantity of drums. Can that be replaced with "TR-808 drums?"
  • Wording: " Selena sings the first verse, imploring the object of ..." - simpler is: "The first verse implores the object of..." or "In the first verse, Selena implores ...".
  • Who? - " Selena believes that her infatuation ..." - That seems to personalize it too much. This is just a song, after all, and could be sung by any female vocalist. Wouldn't it be more accurate to write "The singer believes ..." or something similar? What is the convention in other articles about songs? For an example of better wording, see ".. the song explores a women's intuition, ...".
    • X mark.svg Not done, the recording should represent its original artist also the overuse of "she" will not be pleased by FAC reviewers and they will ask for alternatives. Jonatalk to me 15:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Wording: "with regards to" is generally not a good idea. So "This success enabled a breakthrough of various language barriers, particularly with regards to the English-speaking audience" should be reworded. Maybe change to "This success resulted in a major increase in the size of Selena's English-speaking audience". Or "Selena's English-speaking audience increased in size substantially as a result of the songs widespread popularity." or similar.
  • Details needed: "Fearing that "I Could Fall in Love" might sell more copies than the album itself, the recording had not been released as a physical single." - Who made that decision? When was it made: before or after the album's release? Was it the only song treated that way? Why was this decision made? I would think the studio would make more $$ with a top selling single? Grammar: " ...had not been..." doesnt read well, but it should go away if the sentence is re-written to address the other questions listed here.
    • I didn't even know that the song was not released as a "physical single" (a single which is distributed to CD stores for those interested in buying, similar to an album's wide release. A non-physical single is a single that is only given to radio DJs to play on radios for promotional purposes, and therefore because it is released free, it does not qualify for charting on the Hot 100 chart.), but searching online for sources I stumbled upon a high-quality reliable source (Billboard) and it stated that it was not released physically, I have re-read the source again and it gives Sigerson as the decider for that but no other mention is given. Jonatalk to me 15:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Contradiction? - ""I Could Fall in Love" was released as lead single ..." then " the recording had not been released as a physical single." - Some words need to be added in that first sentence to explain the difference between a physical single and ... what? What is a non-physical single?
  • URL links in footnotes: FN #2, #3, #8, #24, and #67 do not link to Web site URLs correctly. It looks like you are using the {{cite}} template, which is okay; but there is some kind of formatting error. Maybe a hard carriage return is in the wrong place? If you cannot get it to work, just avoid the {{cite}} template and type out the footnote manually.
  • Meaning? - "Mario Tarradell of the Beaver County Times called "I Could Fall in Love" a "crossover stable"." - I don't know that "a crossover stable" means? I'm sure other readers won't either. Can you explain that somehow? Do you mean "staple"?
  • Punctuation: need a space before About.com.
  • 2 year gap? - "received a Music Video of the Year nomination at the 1997 Tejano Music Awards." - When was the video published? 1996? 1997? Why so long?
    • It was 1996, a minor mistake. Jonatalk to me 15:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Space - "received a Music Video of the Year nomination at the 1997 Tejano Music Awards. [92]" - Remove space between period and [.
  • Space - "Ivy Silver Series,[112]In addition..." - space after ]
  • Clarify - "Credits adapted from Dreaming of You album liner notes ..." - Either these are the credits or not. If they are from the liner notes, that should be mentioned in the footnote/source, not in the prose
  • Composer? - "Thomas revealed that he was unable to add any more vocals to a new song, "I Could Fall in Love"." - I'm guessing that Thomas composed the song, but that should be made more explicit.
    • I'm not following here, can you explain what you mean? Jonatalk to me 15:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
I cannot understand what that "Thomas revealed ..." sentence means. Suggest re-word the sentence to be clearer. --Noleander (talk) 16:14, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done Jonatalk to me 14:50, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Story clearer? - " Thomas revealed that he was unable to add any more vocals to a new song, "I Could Fall in Love". Therefore, Thomas performed an a cappella version to assist their understanding, with the result that both Selena and A. B. instantly appreciated the existing lyric." - That sounds like a really interesting process, but I cannot quite grasp what happened? Thomas had some lyrics, but wanted more? Or he liked the lyrics but did not like his own vocal rendition?
    • When Selena and her brother arrived at his studio, he did not have the vocals added to the song, he then performed an a cappella. So basically, all Selena had were instrumentation music no backing vocals which isn't the norm in popular music. Jonatalk to me 15:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Clarify: - " A. B. added that he wanted Selena to record "I could Fall in Love" for her album." - Again, a super interesting plot point, but needs some more clarity. Selena's manager, after hearing the song, asked Thomas for permission for Selena to record it, and Thomas agreed. If that is correct, try being more explicit.
    • The song was written for Selena no other artist, when Thomas finished singing, A.B. really wanted Selena to record it (even more so). Jonatalk to me 15:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
  • " Right from the outset, ..." - that is a bit slangy, especially in the lead. Reword to be more professional.
  • That is all for now. It is a fine article. I suggest that you implement the above suggestions, then take it to WP:FAC. Let me know if I can be of any more help.

End Noleander comments. --Noleander (talk) 18:40, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I left some comments and Fixed most points you have raised. Best, Jonatalk to me 15:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)