Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads

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WikiProject U.S. Roads (Rated Project-class)
U.S. Roads WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of the U.S. Roads WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to state highways and other major roads in the United States. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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The most recent version of jctint templates for US states did mainly the following:

  • Assign the state name to |region=.
  • Pass through a parameter to Template:Jctint/core.
  • Rename a parameter to a core parameter.
  • Build a string for a _special parameter that shares the same structure across these templates, only to differ in the state name.

The approach above has several drawbacks:

  • A parameter available in the core module not exposed by these templates becomes unavailable. Parameter additions in the core module do not propagate to these templates automatically.
  • A lot of duplicate template code is difficult to maintain.
  • These templates can only diverge from one another over time. Template users will have to memorize multiple usage when the interface for these templates could have been uniform.

For the past few days, I have converted most of these templates to use Module:Jctint/USA to eliminate the drawbacks above. You might not have seen any observable changes to articles, because you shouldn't! I am happy to report that the module now handles jctint templates for 40 out of the lower 48 states.

Before I can go into what prevents the templates for the remaining 8 states from being converted, I need to go into some technical details about how |sub2_special= was implemented for most states.

|location_special= is used by default. Certain templates permitted multiple locations to be specified as |location1= through |location4=. These parameters are concatenated as a list of wikilinks that is passed to the core module as |sub2_special=. Other templates did the same, but with townships instead of locations (see Interstate 70 in Ohio). The module handles both: |sub2param=township is used in the latter case; location is the default.

Now, why the templates for 8 states haven't been converted:

  • State name is not the correct article link (GA and WA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Different |sub1name= (LA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Special handling for |indep_city= (CA, CO, and MD): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Cascading |sub2_special= (MN): A list of both townships and locations are permitted, but the module doesn't support cascading yet, though it can easily be done.
  • |town= (WI): It appears that town articles are not named consistently, e.g., Bristol, Dane County, Wisconsin vs Bristol (town), Kenosha County, Wisconsin. So, I could not decide which one to use.

For more details about handling by road data modules, see Template talk:Jcttop/core#sub1name order for an idea, and Module:Road data/strings/USA/NH for an example. This is a longer-term transition, but I would like to avoid adding a boilerplate in the module when this transition is anticipated. See also Template talk:Jct#Inheritance and overriding in road data modules.

During the conversion, I noticed a beginning of divergence in some of the templates. While most states use |mile_ref=, some use |length_ref=. Specifically, templates for AL, FL, OH, OR, and TX. This parameter should be deprecated and renamed to |mile_ref=.

The module opens up other opportunities for uniformly customizing parameters for US junctions, e.g., cascading (above) and support for a list of cities. Additional customizations will not be implemented until there is evidence that they are useful for multiple states.

The templates are still fully backward compatible with the previous version, but the module might have added new features, e.g., list of locations, to some states' templates. These features have already been used in several other states' templates. I hope it is okay for every state's template to have the same leverage.

Of course, if you see any undesirable, observable changes, I will appreciate your report so I can troubleshoot. Constructive comments will also be appreciated. Chinissai (talk) 15:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Illinois has a mix of townships and precincts. There is no pattern that I can tell for which county uses which subdivision. –Fredddie 16:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Interesting. I didn't see any use of precincts in jctint as a separate parameter, so I was able to convert {{ILint}} without trouble. The module should be able to support future customization for precincts, though, perhaps by using switch tables in road data modules. Chinissai (talk) 17:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
California has the funny postmiles stuff - is this properly supported? --Rschen7754 18:20, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes, any "funny" parameters can be overridden by passing them to the module. See Template:ORint for example. It's only San Francisco that prevents me from converting CAint. Chinissai (talk) 18:46, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
On a side note, North Carolina has townships, but most, if not all, of the links don't exist, even as redirects. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 21:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:County routes in Genesee County, New York[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:County routes in Genesee County, New York has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Mitch32(The many fail: the one succeeds.) 20:08, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Watershed navboxes?[edit]

See Talk:U.S. Route 101 in California#Watershed navigation bars. --Rschen7754 07:20, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Opinions on task forces? (Signpost request)[edit]


The Signpost is looking to publish an article on the state of task forces (or subprojects of other projects) and issues they face in 2017. As a project with lots of task forces, many of which were originally WikiProjects themselves, editors here might have some intriguing insights. Would anyone be interested in giving their thoughts/opinions, to be included in the piece? (It doesn't need to be long – just a paragraph or two will be fine, unless you want to write more.) If so, can you please leave a link to your submission at WP:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom/Submissions § The state of taskforces in 2017. Thank you, - Evad37 [talk] 03:05, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages[edit]

Would it be possible for each task force of USRD to have a popular pages report, or is it only for certain ones? Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 00:21, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

@Morriswa: there's no reason why not now that the bot is taking new request for such pages. It's a matter of someone setting up all of the requests though. Imzadi 1979  03:25, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
User:Community Tech bot/Popular pages config.json is the page for setting it up. I went back and fixed all the reports that existed before the changeover but someone would have to set up the rest. --Rschen7754 03:39, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
Since some states don't get enough views to get many pages on USRD's popular pages report, I would think it would be good to have those pages for all of the task forces. I just have no idea how to set it up. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 03:44, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
Since I got the time, I'll manually add them in. —JJBers 17:55, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

US 20A NY shield[edit]

Can someone please fix the infobox coding to get the shield for U.S. Route 20A (New York) to display File:US 20A (NY).svg? I thought I figured it out but guess I was wrong. Dough4872 02:51, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Recruit new editors for the project?[edit]

Hi, just wonder if there is any template or program in the project to recruit newcomers or new editors to join the project? Bobo.03 (talk) 03:25, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

{{Welcome-roads}} is one.—CycloneIsaac (Talk) 03:27, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Welcome-roads is integrated into Twinkle and applies to the WP:HWY umbrella, not just USRD. –Fredddie 10:22, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, CycloneIsaac, Fredddie! I wonder how does the project invite or recruit new editors now? If recruiting new editors is something you would be interested? I am a PhD student from the University of Minnesota. We are working on a study to help project recruit new editors. Bobo.03 (talk) 15:37, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
We haven't really needed to recruit. Typically, people just show up and those of us who have been around kind of show newbies the ropes. That being said, I'd be open to recruiting, though I don't speak for the project. –Fredddie 16:32, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Yeh, understood! Thanks for letting me know. Our goal is to help projects. Now we are trying to collect more feedback/suggestions for what projects need, and how to best help before we launch our study. It's totally up to project's need. :) Bobo.03 (talk) 18:16, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
I stick with personalized messages to IPs and unfamiliar (to me) users I see making edits across several articles. Templates are like when you call a company and get the dial-in system. - Floydian τ ¢ 22:11, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Yes, Floydian. The reason I ask about templates was trying to know if or how projects recruit new editors now. I also prefer something personalized, and it's been proven by some study as well! I am not sure if IPs would be something most interested to us, as those accounts might not be dedicated enough, but editors who made related edits should definitely be identified by our algorithms. Bobo.03 (talk) 14:05, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
Is the purpose of your recruitment efforts to recruit editors to perform routine tasks, or do you want editors to passionately and thoroughly update and create articles in their area of passionate interest?  V 01:58, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
It'a good question, Viridiscalculus. We haven't thought about the specific type of tasks the recruited editors will work on in the project. The match we will recommend is mainly based on the interest (or some other trait) between the editors and the project, but not on the type of potential tasks. We create the matching opportunity, and will leave the further collaboration to the editors and the project members. So I think it will depend on two things, (1) the interest of editors as you mentioned, and (2) the guidance project members would provide to the editors. Do you think this will be helpful? Bobo.03 (talk) 14:16, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

When road signs and the state law code and DOT disagree[edit]

If numerous road signs (as can be shown on Google Maps Street View) show that a highway's southern end begins at one location but a state law code and DOT state that that highway begins in another location, further north, which should be used for the article? I am working on an article for Mississippi Highway 603. The state law code and DOT state that the highway begins at the intersection of Highway 43 in Kiln, MS, and goes north to Highway 53 in Necaise, MS, for a total of 13.76 miles. However, numerous road signs indicate that Highway 603 stretches further south to an intersection at Highway 90 in Waveland, MS, for a total of 25.0 miles. Road signs at an intersection with Interstate 10 in Bay St. Louis, MS, indicate that you can continue south on Highway 603 and this intersection is south of the southern end of the highway, according to the Mississippi state law code and DOT. The road signs indicate that Highway 603 does not end at the Highway 43 intersection but overlaps with Highway 43 south to the Highway 90 intersection. Also, for what it's worth, the local population mostly refers to the entire route as Highway 603. I just wanted to know what the proper convention was in a situation like this. Thanks.--GTheTigerFan (talk) 01:18, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

I would go for the actual location of the road, the state code's not very reliable for this. Mississippi Highway 607 was described very poorly in the code, but it's clear in street view.—CycloneIsaac (Talk) 03:22, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
And if it's significant, you can always discussion the differing definitions. For example, the FHWA considers Interstate 275 in Michigan to end at an interchange with I-96, while MDOT overlaps it northward. Most mapmakers follow suit, and our article discusses this situation. Imzadi 1979  04:05, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
Thank you, CycloneIsaac and Imzadi for your helpful suggestions.--GTheTigerFan (talk) 04:51, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
When there is a disagreement I usually use DOT logs (if they exist) for listing termini and length in the infobox and exit list guides. However, I almost always state the legal termini in either the route description or history (depending on where it fits best for a given article) and if the discrepancy is notable (rather than technical or historical), in the lead. I tend to rely on field signage and Google street view as a last resort, after the above mentioned sources plus any historical maps I can find, but have had to resort to field signage on more than one occasion. I should note that for most of the states I work on, the states are very hesitant to sign concurrences, even when one is obviously required for continuity. That is probably a factor in my not wanting to rely on field signage if literally anything else is available to clear it up. Dave (talk) 08:19, 23 July 2017 (UTC)