Talk:Value-added tax

Cleanup

I don't understand the point of two banners. Nothing has been added to the talk to clarify the addition of either banner. Morphh ^(talk) 1:03, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The example on Ford/Opel sold in Germany/US is a bit confusing mainly because the first example is very different from how it is happening in practice. It shows that there would be massive taxation of the consumer for German cars imported to the US if both VAT and Sales Tax were levied without any provision for exports. I think it may not be clear to all readers that this is a hypothetical example for illustration only. The real situation is explained further below. Germany waives the VAT on exports, so the US consumer only pays US Sales Tax.

In between the unrealistic case and the real case there is one case in which no tax applies anywhere. This is also hypothetical, but also superfluous. What point is meant to be made with the table that has no taxes?

So unless I'm misunderstanding something, I think some cleanup of the example section is definitely needed. Aecur (talk) 14:08, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

bad numbers in chevy vs opel example.

I'm just stopping by and probably won't be back to check this. But someone needs to alter the table showing the different prices of chevrolets and opels in the US and Germany. It says that both a chevy and an opel is produced for $25,000. It says that the US has a 10% sales tax. Therefore I would expect the price in the US would be $27,500 (=25,000 + 2,500). Instead, the price is 27,778. OK, so maybe that's profit. But Germany has a VAT of 20%, and the Opel in Germany sells for $30,000 (= 25,000 + 20%). So no profit is added. Thus the comparison is not apples to apples. Suggest that no profit be included (that just confuses the example), and that the cost of a chevrolet be listed as $27,500. I just looked this over quickly, so someone check my understanding - perhaps I'm wrong. But if I'm wrong, additional explanation is needed because if I don't understand it, lots of others don't as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Commandkirk (talk • contribs) 22:38, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Corrected the numbers. However, the section is still too confusing for readers to understand. If someone can simplify the section, then it will be easier to understand. Great50 (talk) 20:00, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

It seems to me the final example is flawed, there would still be VAT being payed in Germany on the Opel. Whoever wrote this section seems to think that VAT acts like an import tariff, which it does not. Sammatthews99 (talk) 16:45, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

For exports from the European Union to the US there is no VAT to be paid. Exports are really exempt. This has sometimes been labelled a means of unfair competition, but the calculated example shows that this is not the case. Exports have to be exempt in order to avoid a massive taxation of US consumers. The very first table shows this hypothetical situation. - Greetings from Germany. Aecur (talk) 14:16, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Increased VAT to include carbon tax

See this discussed here KVDP (talk) 07:08, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Recently created articles Value Added Tax in Bangladesh and Value added taxation in Bangladesh bring to three the number of articles that cover the topic. I propose they be merged into the Bangladesh section of Value-added tax, unless the result of doing so would be a section longer than five or six paragraphs.

• Value Added Tax in Bangladesh started as a copy of the target section. It was then expanded, but with undesirable content - a few unsourced sentences and a repository of links to primary sources.
• Value added taxation in Bangladesh is sourced, which neither of the other two are, but it covers much the same ground as the target, and at no greater length.

I think that the content in the two new articles can be explained in the context of Value-added tax, and that if tightly written it would not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. (If it can't be kept to five or six paragraphs, or later grows beyond that size, I would have no objection to it being spun off into one new article, although for consistency the best title would use a parenthetical disambiguation: Value added tax (Bangladesh)) --Worldbruce (talk) 21:08, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

I support the merger. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:52, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Support the merger, with the proviso that the Bangladesh section doesn't grow too large as per Worldbruce above. JezGrove (talk) 19:46, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

I support the merger with the prerequisites set by JezGrove Cloaker416 (talk) 04:19, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 21:17, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

China’s VAT revenue

It seems dubious at best that China’s total VAT revenue for 2007 was just 15.47 billion yuan, supposedly “33.9 percent of China's total tax revenue for the year”. This page from the State Administration of Taxation reports a total tax revenue of 4945.2 billion yuan for the same year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.25.141.184 (talk) 21:19, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

"Approximately 193 countries..." ??

Quote from article "166 of the world's approximately 193 countries employ a VAT,..." - I just wonder how 193 can be approximateted (the numbers of countries has to be an integer). Guess I understand the reason for this formulation, but still strongly suggest a rephrasing. Boeing720 (talk) 17:03, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

There's no universally agreed list of countries. However, 193 seems to be the number of members of the UN rather than some general approximation. I think it's better to just say that in the article. Sakkura (talk) 11:44, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Swedish OMS

Boeing720 has twice added the old Swedish OMS (omsättningsskatt) to the table of EU VAT rates, in addition to the current MOMS (meromsättningsskatt). However, OMS was not a value-added tax. "Meromsättning" (added revenue) means essentially the same as value-added, but OMS omits the "added" part - it was a plain sales tax.

Many other countries had a similar progression from sales tax to VAT; Denmark even used practically the same words, and exactly the same contractions, apart from not capitalizing "oms" and "moms." I don't think these non-VAT taxes should be listed in the table of European VATs. Sakkura (talk) 23:09, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Sakkura As you are Danish, I'm certain you could read the source I added. There was a OMS during World War II, I don't refer to that - but the OMS that was introduced in 1959. The only difference compared to MOMS is so little that one very well can state OMS was the very first VAT in Sweden and OMS predates MOMS. To the final consumer of no difference whatsoever. The abbreviation MOMS (as of imposing 1969) = mervärdes och omsättningsskatt. (litteral translation of the first part "more value's" (genitive) whilst the last part means "revenue tax", or "revenue taxation". Such abbreviations are next to always capitalized. In Denmark too (Og hvad med SKAT ?) - no one writes or spells Scandinavian Airlines (Scandinavian Airline System) as anything else than SAS , pronounced "sass". Although I'm very familiar with the Greater Copenhagen Area - and more, I would say Copenhagen is my Capital City, but I've never thought of oms/moms there, and haven't comment on that. I just think it is somewhat interesting trivia. Boeing720 (talk) 03:58, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

And just by the way, during a few years in the early 70's (halvfjerdserne) I remember the MOMS was higher on Sundays (!). Boeing720 (talk) 04:03, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

The only difference compared to MOMS is that OMS was not a value-added tax, it was a sales tax. That's specifically why it should not be in this article, except perhaps for mention as a non-VAT forerunner to the present VAT (the problem with that approach is you'd have to make such mentions for lots of other countries). It would be more at home in the articles on sales tax and consumption tax. As for your source, it's paywalled. As for the spelling in Danish, moms is lower-caps according to SKAT (tax agency) and Dansk Sprognævn (the Danish language council). Sakkura (talk) 11:11, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

If only Wikimedia coukd be more flexible, I could have shown you "Pris 6:85 inkl. OMS" or "Pris 4:95 inkl. MOMS". It was capitalized for many decades. Whats the actual difference, both OMS and MOMS is only paid by the end-user, in the end. It's not wrong to say MOMS is OMS with more bureaucracy within each step of selling & developing. Boeing720 (talk) 23:41, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Please also read this [1] In Swedish, with forgotten capitalization, but still. Boeing720 (talk) 23:45, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

The actual difference is that with a VAT, the value added in each stage of production etc. is taxed. With a sales tax, only the final price at one stage is taxed. This has a different economic and administrative impact. The available sources clearly establish that OMS was a sales tax. Sakkura (talk) 23:44, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia VAT

in the map it says that Saudi Arabia has no VAT which is incorrect. Saudi Arabia has had a 5 percent VAT for a couple of years and now it has a 15 percent VAT. Map needs updating. Unfortunately I don't know how to do that. Source: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2020/06/29/Saudi-Arabia-VAT-triples-to-15-percent-on-July-1-Here-s-everything-you-need-to-know Rayansb (talk) 19:33, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

value added tax — purpose

recommendable usage by purpose of value added tax.

2003:E0:8F04:481:683C:CB8F:F31D:A81 (talk) 03:55, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

EU VAT list

Hi, quick note on the EU VAT list, why is it separated from the rest of the world especially when an article about EU VAT already exists, European Union value added tax. I think we should at least have a single table on this article, or possibly an article with a list of VAT, GST and sales tax that would be more organised and easy to understand. Also, I'm thinking of proposing a request to split List of countries by tax rates to seperate lists that discuss each tax on its own as I don't see a point in having a table that is very messy and difficult to read. Notes on any point are more than welcome :). Vyvagaba (talk) 14:46, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

India VAT to GST and Estonia VAT increase to 22%

Since 1st July 2017, the VAT in India has been called GST (Goods and services tax), and the rates vary from 5 to 28% with the majority of products at 18%.

In the document, the local name of the tax is still mentioned as VAT.

Ramtin.abadi (talk) 06:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Starting from 1 Jan 2024, the VAT rate of Estonia has increased to 22%

In the document, the VAT rate is stated as 20%

Ramtin.abadi (talk) 06:44, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Pinchme123 (talk) 03:31, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2024

In the ‘Examples’ sections under the subheading ‘With a value-added tax’, the following clause needs to be deleted in its entirety: “but only by successfully selling the value-added product to the buyer or consumer in the next stage. In the previously shown examples, if the retailer fails to sell some of its inventory, it suffers a greater financial loss in the VAT scheme, in comparison to the sales tax regulatory system, by having paid a higher wholesale price on the product it wants to sell.”

The above is factually inaccurate in basically all jurisdictions with a VAT or GST tax. A business is able to claim a purchase/input tax credit on its VAT return regardless of whether it is successful in selling the inventory created from whatever input it was charged tax on in the previous production stage. There is no way of even knowing what exact inputs relate to what exact outputs and a valid tax invoice is generally sufficient for a business to substantiate its claim, and request for refund of, if applicable, a purchase/input tax credit on its VAT return. 2601:681:8A01:2E40:393B:C20:205B:F437 (talk) 10:13, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. RudolfRed (talk) 18:53, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Subjectivist POV

This article appears to have some serious subjectivist/marginalist POV, which is poorly cited to boot. For example it simply presents supply/demand curves as if these were actually existing things. It presupposes a general equilibrium. It suggests there exists such a thing as "consumer surplus". I would at the very least expect this POV to be clearly marked ("The neoclassical school of economics argues that ..."). Within classical political economy none of these things exist. KetchupSalt (talk) 12:58, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Products excluded from VAT

products excluded from VAT Esonasiphiwo (talk) 18:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Contradiction in comparison to Sales Tax

In the "Comparison with sales tax" section the article says:

By contrast, sales taxes are collected on each transaction, encouraging businesses to vertically integrate to reduce the number of transactions and thereby reduce the amount of tax.

Later, in the example, the sales tax is not levied except to the final consumer:

The retailers pay no tax directly

I think the latter is correct, and the former comparison is wrong, but I'm not sure enough to make the edit. Is it different in different jurisdictions? I've heard the "vertical integration" argument before. Are there cases where it applies?

I feel like this comparison is an important part of this page, so we should get it right. Lkesteloot (talk) 21:58, 9 December 2024 (UTC)