Talk:Bank of Amsterdam

Summary

This article is, at the moment, basically a summary of a chapter from Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations. This comprises somewhat dated research - written during the 18th century - but is nonetheless a fascinating read. There is, of course, newer research related to the Bank of Amsterdam, and information from additional sources should be integrated into this article. 23:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

1/Smith distinguishes between the early days of the Bank, when it took in deposits in coins and minted fresh ones to laundry all the debased currency, and his own days, when the bank had been busy inventing new financial instruments that justified his lengthy digression. The article does not respect this development. It sounds as if it had functioned in its 1776 way right from the start in 1609--Anne97432 (talk) 05:00, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

2/which allowed him to claim his deposit 6 months later, : that's not what Smith writes. It could be withdrawn within the first six months. --Anne97432 (talk) 05:09, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Name change

The name should be changed back to English per WP:NAME. Wikipedia articles should be named in English. LK (talk) 15:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Discount Bank

moved from my talk page
Hello Joost99,

I saw you removed the new link I had added to this article. However, discount bank is just the English equivalent of Dutch wisselbank. See for example this web page: [1]. So it's most accurate to say that the Bank of Amsterdam/Amsterdamsche Wisselbank was a discount bank. Unfortunately this wiki does not have an article about discount bank yet, while the subject already exists on the Dutch WP. Regards, The Wiki ghost (talk) 18:55, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi. The source you give is just one entry, which might well be mistaken. The bank did no discounting. Encyclopedia Britannica says: "Amsterdam’s “exchange bank” was instituted in 1609 to provide monetary exchange at established rates, but it soon became a deposit bank for the safe settling of accounts. Unlike the Bank of England, established almost a century later, it neither managed the national currency nor acted as a lending institution (except to the government in emergencies)." This link clearly states "it was also an exchange bank, rather than a bank of issue and discount. ... the bank did not make loans to merchants by discounting commercial paper." (pag 127) This link states it was set up as a deposit bank. None of these sources call it a discount bank, even more, they mention discounting was not the trade of the bank. So I would like to see discount removed. Regards, Joost 99 (talk) 21:04, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

I've changed it to simple bank. If anything exchange bank (wissel; bill of exchange) could be an option. Joost 99 (talk) 20:38, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

copyright violation

Contributors need to be aware that a copy-and-paste of a source, whether cited or not, is a copyright violation, unless clearly indicated to be a direct quotation (and such direct quotations should be small - not an entire section) - I have paraphrased the 'Fall of the Bank' section to rectify this. Please feel free to improve my efforts [2] (this isn't really my specialist topic), but ensure that any future edits conform with Wikipedia:Copyrights policy - this is a matter that needs to be taken seriously. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:36, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Ernst Andersen

Danish professor of law Ernst Andersen in his book on the Origins of Banking (Bankvæsenets Oprindelse 1976) unequivocally states that the Wisselbank started as a depository of gold and coins. It did not discount bills or lend out. The sole paper transactions in the bank were the execution of payments by transfer from one account to another within the bank. Because it was metal based with 100 % reserves (probably the only bank ever to operate with full reserves and not fractional) it survived some very serious bankruns in the 17th century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.23.224.61 (talk) 09:42, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

blockquotes

In Dutch we have an expression: the best helmsmen are on the shore. I am attacked by Oppa who has no profile, did not add anything here and cannot be regarded as helpful:

https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Bank_of_Amsterdam

Kind regards.Taksen (talk) 08:42, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

See "18th century" for how to start a blockquote: introduce author and/or source, and then quote. Don't subject readers to unexpected blockquotes without first telling us so. Thanks. Oppa gangnam psy (talk) 00:08, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

I have never heard of this rule.Taksen (talk) 05:14, 28 April 2022 (UTC) Oppa was blocked a few weeks later.Taksen (talk) 04:46, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Location of the Bank in 1656

The caption of the Lingelbach painting implies that the Wisselbank was housed in the new Town Hall, then under construction. Is there a basis for this claim? (Pinging user:Taksen.) Other sources state that after the old Town Hall burned down the Bank was then temporarily moved to the nl:Jan Roodenpoortstoren and only moved to the new Town Hall after it was completed, around the corner from the part that is visible in the painting. What is visible in the lower left is said to be a temporary housing for justice court officials.  --Lambiam 11:49, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The town hall was put into use in July 1655, i.e. the ground floor. Jan Vos described that they reached the exchange bank, p. 105 https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_kli001klio01_01/_kli001klio01_01_0026.php. Taksen (talk) 14:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

• M. van Nieuwkerk (2009) De Wisselbank, p. 62.Taksen (talk) 16:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
• Dehing_Binnenwerk DEF compleet.indb, p. 84Taksen (talk) 16:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
• Who wrote: What is visible in the lower left is said to be a temporary housing for justice court officials? The entrance of court of justice was in the middle, the exchange bank was located on the southside. The two men are exchanging coins, it looks like a shop with a counter, not a court.Taksen (talk) 16:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  Isn't the side we see the eastside? The viewing direction appears to be due North. The stuff about the justice court officials (gerechtsdienaren) comes from the description by the Amsterdam Museum.  --Lambiam 22:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

• The first two sentences are redundant. I live here for many years, I know where the north is. Twice I downloaded the file with the painting from this description but I arrived in a loop and had to restart. Horrible experience as I had to delete more files than I wanted. I like the Mennonite couple, after leaving the counter. Lingelbach had a sense for psychology, byebye.Taksen (talk) 04:40, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

  The southside of the new Town Hall is not visible in the painting. If the bank was located on the southside (now nl:Paleisstraat (Amsterdam)), it is not visible in the painting. So there is no "Wisselbank in the lower left".  --Lambiam 09:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

  A court of justice with an open counter (at the Dam side) sounds ridiculous to me.Taksen (talk) 12:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC) "Vanaf 1655 is de Wisselbank gevestigd in het naar ontwerp van Jacob van Campen (1596-1657) gebouwde nieuwe stadhuis.

  The Amsterdam Museum writes: "Vóór het in aanbouw zijnde Stadhuis is de tijdelijke behuizing van de gerechtsdienaren te zien." ("In front of the City Hall, which is under construction, the temporary housing for the court officers can be seen.") Indeed, what we see looks very much like a temporary structure. Do you have a source that states that the bank is visible in this painting, or is the claimed visibility the conclusion of your original research?  --Lambiam 14:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

• No, Vondel describes the Exchange Bank inside the building in an occasional poem presented on 29 July 1655, which was published within a year (lines 655–665). From this, I can only conclude that the Wisselbank was no longer housed in the Jan Roodenpoortstoren by the end of July 1655. It is not very likely they allowed clients of the bank into the building before that date. "Tijdens de feestelijkheden op 27 mei 1654 waren de steigers en masten van het nog onvoltooide stadhuis versierd met loofwerk, festoenen en bloemen (vs 1027-1029)." Nu voert Vondel de lezer mee naar de tweede verdieping van het stadhuis, de ‘tweede staedje’ (vs 1037). Deze verdieping was nog niet voltooid toen Vondel zijn gedicht schreef in 1655.

The Banker resides in the west: and the south, deep and vast, Receives all of Peru upon his exchange bank’s draft, And easily enough the street shines, clear and bright. Here slumbers a silver mine, in Croesus’ silver site. Silver is tested here, gold, coined and uncoined still. The Master of Exchange grants merchants entry at will; The Receiver, behind him, takes the round coins in his care, Or returns them as needed, to suit others’ share. The exchange clerk keeps the books, close to his station, the Master of Exchange remains at his side in dedication.

• The categories mentioned below are bad, done by someone who had no idea what an important source the archive of the Wisselbank is.Taksen (talk) 04:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC) I have no idea when and by whom this assessment was added here, but it seems out of date and out of focus.Taksen (talk) 04:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC) It was done in 2016.