Talk:Antibiotics

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First antibiotic[edit]

What was the first antibiotic? I thought it was penicillin, but a book I have says Sulfa drugs. In that case, what was the significance of penicillin? The article is confusing and uninformative, especially the 'time-line' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.222.224.70 (talk) 15:41, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Introduction revamp[edit]

I'm troubled by the rambling nature of the intro to this article. First I think that we should point out the technical definition of antibiotics and then transition into what most people think of when they think of antibiotics. Anyway I typed out my thoughts, but couldn't smoothly combine them with the already stated information.

An antibiotic, by technical definition, is a compound secreted by a microorganism that inhibits the growth of or kills other microorganisms. This strict definition slightly disagrees with the popular connotation that any chemical that inhibits the growth of or kills bacteria is an antibiotic. Purely synthetic agents are referred to as antimicrobials and include all chemicals that destroy or inhibit the growth of any microorganism (not just bacteria). There is a subset of these antimicrobials that are used as medication to treat bacterial infections, and it is these that are routinely included in the term antibiotic. Common usage, even among physicians, allows this merger of ‘antibiotics’ and ‘antibacterial antimicrobials’ for the sake of simplicity.

Anyway, I think there should be clear lines drawn here and vague language removed.

  1. The first thing on the page should be the technically accurate definition of antibiotics, maybe with a link to the microbiology page.
  2. Then comes the long, confusing task of distinguishing which of the 'antibiotics(micro definition)' and which of the antimicrobials are referred to by the connotation of antibiotics. This will be hard to explain to an average user.
  3. Distinguish that Antimicrobials include ALL substances that inhibit or kill any or all of the 4 classes of microbes. This includes disinfectants. Medically, Antimicrobial refers to purely chemotherapeutic agents and forgets the rest.
  4. Find a a way to clearly point to the subset of antimicrobial agents that are therapeutically antibacterial.

I believe that I and anyone who wishes to help have a lot of work to do to this article before we even get to improving the subsections.--Mrdeath5493 (talk) 07:54, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree that this article is rambling. It also uses either wordy or passive contructions too often. I'd start with these to begin fixing the readability. Centasiafriend (talk) 05:20, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

resistance to antibiotics[edit]

In the article, it should be noted that the new antibiotics that are made against pathogens resistant against multiple antiobiotics are:

  • linezolide
  • daptomycine

other approaches are fages (mentioned already in article) bacterial interference (making a comeback; new approach here would be the use of genetic modifcation of the bacteria that is introduced to patient by doctor, so that the bacteria is rendered harmless for patient but not for other bacteria) and peptides (commercially made)

finally, viruses (other than bacteriophages) can also be used as a DNA delivery systems see http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/features/online/1024/a-few-good-viruses . an example is the vaccinia virus which was modified to attack smallpox —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.66.49.94 (talk) 17:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

the article called pathogens resistant against multiple antiobiotics can be made by a quick google translate of this dutch wiki page: [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.245.181.143 (talk) 08:36, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Bacteriophages[edit]

I added a {{expert-subject}} to the Beyond Antibiotics section; there has been some amount of recent attention on the viability of phage therapy and I don't think the section adequately reflects that. -Falcon8765 (talk) 05:59, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Antibiotics and alcohol[edit]

There is no categorical danger of mixing antibiotics and alcohol, but some antibiotics cause dangerous interactions with alcohol.

However, there is a widespread belief that there is a general danger, and thus this point may prove contentious; it was incorrect in the article when I read it, misrepresenting the cited sources.

For reference: I’ve stated the consensus medical view (in some cases danger, in most cases none) in this revision (these edits), with extensive quotations and citations, and this Archived discussion also addresses the issue. Hope these help!

—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 05:51, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

"consensus medical view" clearly states "avoid drinking alchohol with antibiotics". It says that in most of the sources as a bottom line. Including in that article from which you ripped the sentence out of context: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antibiotics-and-alcohol/AN01802 I dont understand how some possible explanation of a myth that is "known" only in UK and is 70 years old is relevant. I would rather base on something that is at least scientifically sound. Alcohol and antibiotics are processed by the liver. You overload the liver with one, it will choke on another. This is a serious issue - do not make it sound as if it is not dangerous at all. Some dude might read it, say oh well, go get drunk and die. Is it something you want? Andru nl (talk) 22:26, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

what kind of antbiotics are usuaally used for tooth infections?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.43.123 (talk) 04:41, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

can you take doxycycline if you are allergic to penicillin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.24.35.17 (talk) 22:21, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Penetration of Antibiotics into Human Bone Tissue[edit]

We have added a paragraph about Penetration of Antibiotics into Human Bone Tissue, documented by bibliography, but someone deleted it. Why? Please contact with the author Dr. Harry Gouvas Greece, in harrygouvas@gmail.com Harrygouvas (talk) 11:33, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Synergy[edit]

There are classic examples of antibiotic synergy, and I thought a company had started down this path with not only 2-way (binary) synergistic compounds, but they were also considering higher, k-way interactions. I thought it was PharmaceuticalRX in Boston (~2003), but a Google search now yields little. I also have some email between Douglas Youvan and the Chief Scientist of the CIA dated 2002 after the anthrax attack. As his biographer, I know he took this synergy work further at the NSTDA and worked out a procedure for rapidly combining binary pairs of antibiotics. Looking through our Wikipedia articles on topics related to synergy, I don't see much. Perhaps we should start a new section, even if it is just the older, published work. Some of those publications have nice pictures of clearing zones on Petri dishes where synergy is easily comprehended by a reader. Youvan also published math and computer graphics simulations on www.youvan.com - more nice images for a new section. Bridgetttttttebabblepoop 12:36, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Someone please figure out what to add[edit]

Is this the right article to add these news items?

Are there other article(s) where this would be (more) appropriate? 99.39.5.103 (talk) 00:19, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Someone of the science reference desk suggested this would be better at Antibiotic_resistance#Role_of_other_animals or Factory farming. I still don't know how to add this, so please do if you do. 99.39.5.103 (talk) 15:06, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

European Antibiotic Awareness Day[edit]

Details shoudl be added on this - as there is "American" awareness raising on proper use of. Thus Europe - a bigger area, greater population shoudl also be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.96.60 (talk) 23:27, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Sideromycins[edit]

I see a fair amount of literature is available on the sideromycins, albomycin and salmycin, but don't see them discussed in this article or for that matter elsewhere on WP. Is that just an oversight, or is there some reason to exclude them?

LeadSongDog come howl! 18:06, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Indications - need for edit[edit]

Under the title "Indications" are two paragraphs. The first says "Treatment", then follows 3 bullet points with different indications for treatment. The first two sounds good, but the third starts with "Immunomodulation". Immunomodulation is NOT an indication, so this part should be edited. There are two conditions listed further out, but shouldn't they come first, as they do in the other parts? As it is, it sounds odd. I would have changed it myself, but I found it a bit difficult to get it written in a way that I felt was really good, English is not my first language, so I thought it would be better if somebody else did it. Thought I should make a note about it here though, so somebody can take a look... Thanks! :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peapeam (talkcontribs) 19:09, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Probiotics[edit]

I am currently taking antibiotics and no mention is made in the article of probiotics. It is extremely important to take these as antibiotics basically kill both bad and good bacteria. My doctor prescribed Probioset and I checked what it does:

"The basic requirement is the security of "friendly bacteria" and their resistance to acidic pH in the stomach and bile salts. A probiotic must adhere to the mucosa of the gastrointestinal tract to allow transient colonization of the intestine. PROBIOSET is a natural product containing in its composition two probiotic strains of lactic acid bacteria - Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium lactis, and Inulin prebiotic. Adding prebiotic prolongs the survival of probiotic bacteria and facilitates colonization of the gastrointestinal tract."

I think it is also advisable to drink sour milk and eat sauerkraut as both these foodstuffs contain good bacteria that antibiotics destroy. Ivankinsman (talk) 17:55, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

This article should be named "Antibiotics"[edit]

The merging of antibacterial and antibiotics - does it run contrary to the general public's understanding, and if so, will the merging of the articles cause misunderstanding or harm?[edit]

I am not a medical- or health- professional. I am not questioning the professional's decision to place antibacterial and antibiotics on the same page. However, for the general public (non-medical professionals) who use Wikipedia as a general reference (for example, to verify claims made by a third party), given the article's current presentation and organization, will they be able to correctly apply the information to answer their questions?

At the very least, members of generic public should be able to quickly find out which chemicals listed on this page are intended for internal use (oral, intravenous, etc) versus external use?

98.112.33.186 (talk) 07:36, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

I believe merging the two is incorrect. Not all antibacterial agents are antibiotics. There should be two separate articles - one that generally describes antibacterial agents and one on antibiotics. These articles might be helpful: http://www.tufts.edu/med/apua/about_issue/agents.shtml#1 or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotica --AmateurArzt (talk) 14:35, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Article name[edit]

So it's going to be Antibacterial and not antibiotic? Sounds silly to me. --Lee (talk) 05:47, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Need for antibiotics page[edit]

How was it decided to merge antibiotic with antibacterial - the merge proposal para seems all against a merge.? Also it makes no sense at all since there are nine other wiki entries related purely to antibiotic - and the article itself refers to five main articles using antibiotic plus there is a whole section on the Status of antibiotics development. Most people look up antibiotic, most people use the word antibiotic, all doctors in the UK refer to antibiotics.There is also an entry -List of antibiotics-. In general usage the term antibacterial is used just in relation to soaps and cleansers. Iztwoz (talk) 08:59, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Propose move from "antibacterial" to "antibiotics"[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. The consensus is that antibiotics is a more common name and a more frequent search term, and that this article should return to its pre-2010 title and focus on that subject. Splitting and content rearrangement are ultimately editorial decisions; but, this move provides a central location for a very important topic. Xoloz (talk) 19:50, 10 March 2014 (UTC)



AntibacterialAntibiotics – Various people have proposed this move would be right. The weight of the coverage of the topic is on "antibiotics" and not "antibacterial". Practically all other language Wikipedias use the term "antibiotics", and if anything, they have separate articles for antibacterials or antimicrobials.

Right now English Wikipedia has no article for the concept of "antibiotics". This is an oversight. The term "antibiotics" currently links to "antimicrobial", which is completely inappropriate to meet the demands of the readership because that article does not present information about antibiotics in the sense for which the word is overwhelmingly used. While this article on "antibacterial" may need to exist, the content within it now is mostly about the concept of antibiotics. Perhaps "antibacterial" information could be moved to the antimicrobial article, or perhaps a new "antibacterial" article could be made, but in any case, there ought to be an article on English Wikipedia called "antibiotics".

This used to be an article on antibiotics, but in 2010 it was moved by a single user to "antibacterial" seemingly without discussion. This user's rationale in the edit summary was "moved Antibiotic to Antibacterial: Follow MEDMOS (see ATC code J01). The article as currently written is only about antibacterial agents. Will add refs.", which at least is worth debating if it should stand. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:40, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

  • Lane is absolutely correct in pointing out that it borders on silly that we don't have an article named antibiotics and dealing specifically with antibiotics; it doesn't match the needs of our readership. I agree with his renaming suggestion, and at first glance his plan with how to deal with merging content in to appropriate articles also looks good.I've also moved his sig to where I think it belongs, feel free to rv me if I'm wrongKevin Gorman (talk) 15:52, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect. Even scientists and clinicians use the term "antibiotics" where "antibacterials" is actually intended. With the emergence of improved antiviral, antifungal, antiprotozoal and antihelminthic treatments we will need to cover all of those in one article, ideally briefly and with great sources. JFW | T@lk 17:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
    • I agree. While the term "antibacterial" may be "often used as a synonym for antibiotic", "antibiotic" is by far the more common term, even among doctors, and in most languages. There needs to be an article called antibiotics. Whether that is achieved by renaming this article, or by writing a new article under the heading "antibiotics", I leave for others to decide.

74.95.43.249 (talk) 00:39, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I just notified the mover. LeadSongDog come howl!
  • Split create an antibiotics pharmacology page, and focus this on antibacterial stuff. And keep antimicrobial separate, since antimicrobials exist outside of drugs. -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 05:04, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Rename for the start, then split and/or reorganize as necessary. The merge was uncalled for in the first place (but somehow went unchallenged at the time). No such user (talk) 09:20, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment I support having an article called "antibiotic", but shouldn't this discussion be happening on Talk:Antimicrobial, since that's where antibiotic redirects to? Jinkinson talk to me 15:06, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Wow! I am amazed that Wikipedia does not have an article on "Antibiotics". What an oversight. I am unconvinced that the term "antibacterial" is "often used as a synonym for antibiotics". The references quoted in the lead section do not support the statement. I have never heard the word "antibacterial" used to describe a medication administered to a patient (although I accept that this may be peculiar to my experience in the UK). The only context that I have heard the term "antibacterial" is in reference to handwash or disinfectants. Ironically, the lead section states "Antibacterials are different from disinfectants (sanitizing agents), which are less selective substances used to destroy microorganisms." No reference is provided for the statement. Axl ¤ [Talk] 15:45, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

In the absence of any attempt to address my concerns, I have deleted the text from the article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 13:12, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Support we need an article on the term 'antibiotics'. WP:COMMONNAME --LT910001 (talk) 04:38, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Strong support per WP:COMMONNAME, etc. Red Slash 17:05, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Support Just to copy from entry before move proposed ….the article itself refers to five main articles using antibiotics plus there is a whole section on the Status of antibiotics development. Most people look up antibiotic, most people use the word antibiotic, all doctors in the UK refer to antibiotics.There is also an entry -List of antibiotics-. In general usage the term antibacterial is used just in relation to soaps and cleansers. Iztwoz (talk) 17:50, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Duration[edit]

Intravenous antibiotics are often given for arbitrary periods. The durations are poorly evidence based. Here is a review focused on children: doi:10.1002/jhm.2239 JFW | T@lk 20:07, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

That's PMID 25044445, and as you say, it addresses children. The more general case of bacteraemia treatment duration is addressed in PMID 22085732, with comment in PMID 22236377. The need and basis for duration adjustments is discussed at length in PMC 3256207. LeadSongDog come howl! 21:14, 3 September 2014 (UTC)