Talk:Battle of Suomussalmi

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Military history (Rated C-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
C This article has been rated as C-Class on the quality assessment scale.
WikiProject Finland (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Finland, a WikiProject related to the nation of Finland. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Soviet Union (Rated C-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Soviet Union, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Russia / History / Military (Rated C-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia.
To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.
 

New Analysis Dot[edit]

I added a small bit of information to the analysis, only to give a more full understanding of the various factors leading to Finnish success. Let me know if you have any problems.

-Jclingerman (4/25/06)

Casualties[edit]

Hi,

Just some notices. Soviets lost more than 40 000 troops in this battle. Only 5000 out of 48 000 men of the 9th Army made it back to Soviet Union. Two divisions (163rd and 44th) and one ski brigade were totally destroyed.

The battle was a great humiliation to the mighty Red Army which had not gone trough this kind of defied before. And as much it was humiliation for RA it was a glorious victory for Finnish Defence Forces.

Best wishes,

OJ from Finland

Ski brigade?? Tank brigade is right, I think... Cinik 62.209.237.4 08:25, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please provide sources for those numbers. - FireForEffect - 18:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Clean up[edit]

I just cleaned up the grammer a bit in the Battle section. I do not believe I changed anything of what the author intended to say. I think that the word 'trace' is not what was intended, but could not figure out what should be there. Also, there is mention of the Finns destroying a village. Is this Raat? It is not clear from the text. PerlKnitter 15:10, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Trouble with casualty numbers[edit]

Can anyone find verifiable sources for the casualties? The amount of soviet dead was just changed from 16000-35000 to c. 22500 - which seems somewhat suspicious, but I can find even fewer sources for the former numbers than for the latter (though one refers to it as a conservative estimate). Additionally, the article currently cites Finnish losses as 350 KIA, which seems a bit low, and some reports I've found speak of about 900 with over a thousand wounded. It's true enough that specific figures for the Soviet side are not available, due to the circumstances. --Kizor 00:52, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

This link http://www.winterwar.com/Battles/Suomussalmi2.htm gives 5000 killed or wounded for the Soviets not 27K and gives this for the Finns 350 KIA, 600 wounded and 70 missing —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.249.112.176 (talk) 02:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
Sorry, but link http://www.winterwar.com/Battles/Suomussalmi2.htm gives not this! He gives 5000 bodies, that was found in area Suomussalmi-Alassalmi 1)this area is full deep forrest - many bodies was not found 2) this is not all area of battle 3) this is only tail battle - without battle on Raate road, diferent from this article. On Raateroad was totaly destroyed 44th division and 21th tank brigade. Cinik 09:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Here's a quotation from the book "A Frozen Hell: The Russo-Finnish War of 1939-1940" - "Daylight revealed a scene that staggered the senses of even the most battle-wise correspondents who were brought in to see and photograph it. From the high-water mark of the 163rd Division, up at Piispajarvim to the last burned out truck between Raate village and the Soviet border, were scattered the stone-stiff bodies of 27,500 Russian soldiers. Forty-three tanks and 270 other vehicles, trucks, tractors, and prime moviers clotted the narrow road or lay, windscreens spiderwebbed with bullet holes and turrets blackened by fire, in the snowy morass of roadside ditches. The victors acquired substantial booty: 4 dozen pieces of artillery, 600 working rifles, 300 functional machine guns, a few mortars and salvageable tanks, and a motley but welcome assortment of trucks and armoured cars. Finnish losses amounted to 900 dead and 1770 wounded.

I think this book is more accurate than the website that has been linked to above. Therefore, I am going to change the casualties to (note: although the book does mention captured Soviets, it doesn't mention how many. I am putting 2,100 because it seems like a reasonable amount):

Soviet: 27,500 dead, 2,100 captured, 43 tanks destroyed Finnish: 900 dead, 1770 wounded

If anyone has any problems with this please let me know.

One last thing, I have to go now, so I'll edit the figures when I get back. - FireForEffect - 16:45, 25 October 2007 (UTC)FireForEffect

Again, if you have a problem with these numbers and you have a credible source, post it here. Do not edit the numbers without first posting here. - FireForEffect - 19:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

WW II[edit]

Winter War is often acepted as part of WWII. Soviet Union was ally of Germany in this time an his expansion is part of WWII. And factor, that somebody do not agree with this, is not relevant reason for displacing this article from category, who somebody was this article search. Cinik 14:50, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I need sources. Winter War currently stands as a contemporary war to World War II. Until that changes, we can't change any of the battles. Oberiko 16:37, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Change[edit]

I wrote "Soviet army being poorly equipped for winter warfare" because they were better equipped in almost every other aspect than winter clothing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Irtehprwn (talkcontribs) 18:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

And the sources of course are from your ass, as always Shipseggsbasket (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Leave the oroginal (Shipseggsbasket's version) because your citation hasn't references. MOJSKA 666 (msg) 19:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I think Finnish were too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.94.243.68 (talk) 23:41, 2 November 2010 (UTC)