Talk:Battle of Turnhout (1597)

Challenging some statements

Casualty rates are highly questionable. I have different rennaisance engraving of the battle, both show same picture: 4 imperial infantry regiments are in good battle formation. Their shooters are engaged in firefight with reiters, who look like performing caracole. All cavalry is either attacking infantry frontally or pursuing Spanish cavalry, running to its left. No signs of rout by pikemen though. Notably my source (direct scan from rennaisance atlas of battles and, I would say, a bit more informative than attached here) also shows attack by Dutch infantry on imperial right, which was possible cause of starting rout by imperial troops. However, Spanish infantry is not shown as encircled and has woods behind.

Interesting both engravings show count Varax lying dead at some distance in front of his infantry, which could indicate, that he was killed in a cavalry melee in the beggining of the battle.

I think there are two basic issues with the article:

1. It was not pure cavalry engagement as it might seem from your description. Number of casualties you demonstrate also exceeds total number of cavalry troop available to Spanish commander.

2. I highly doubt total no of Dutch casualties based on above ((a) cavalry-infantry protracted firefight. Infanftry initially shown in good order, (b) extremely high rate of Spanish casualties, considering close woods and absence of encirclement. Even if we take all armoured pikemen as slow movers, who were killed or captured in pursuit). All in all, they exceed that suffered by Spaniards in battle of Niewport in 1600. Considering that figures you are stating are based on one-sided sources (victors), it should be specifically stated so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.29.18.165 (talk) 10:44, 28 February 2012 (UTC)