Talk:Bearer bond

Old discussions

Removed the following:

(note that checks printed in the US all say "endorse", which is an incorrect spelling)

Merriam-Webster shows 'endorse' as the preferred US spelling.

Not just US, endorse is the preferred spelling in British english too.

The UCC, adopted in all states, uses "indorsement" and its derivative words. Either is generally accepted. I believe that "endorsement" is more common in lay usage. Ellsworth 19:26, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Dividend Payments

What about dividend payments - where/how do they go?

I'm not an expert, but zero coupon bearer bonds were (AIUI) not uncommon; Otherwise the dividend would be paid to whoever physically presented the (literal) coupon to the issuer. Then, of course, somebody realised that the dividends themselves were a tradeable entity without the attached bond, and thus appeared the strips market... 87.194.60.87 12:15, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Pop culture references

I've removed the pop culture references from this article. Completely unencyclopedic. James A. Stewart 04:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I just now came to this article after becoming curious about bearer bonds after seeing it in a movie. I recalled it being a somewhat common plot element in heist movies and the such. I came to this article hoping to find some specific information about how Bearer Bonds are portrayed in pop culture and I am dissapointed to see that the article has been completely wiped clean of any such information. While the "laundry list" isn't very indepth on the subject, it's at least a start and can hopefully let the subject develop a little more. I disagree that it is unencyclopedic, it's certainly not unuseful to someone interested in the subject. I vote to Keep. -- GIR 06:52, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

From what I can see of the revision history, there's not much about how bearer bonds are portrayed, just a (seemingly) random list of films/tv shows in which they are portrayed. Whilst I think the former might be of interest (or rather a comparison between the portrayal and the reality), I'm with James on the latter. 87.194.60.87 12:10, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with GIR - BBs are commonly used as a McGuffin in heist movies and, unless you happen to be a financial market trader, the only place you're likely to hear about them is in a cinema. So indeed, I would imagine many visitors to this page are movie fans wanting to find out what these things are. So I've added a bit as suggested by User:87.194.60.87 --Oscar Bravo 06:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

What's there now is a distinct improvement - nice job Oscar Bravo. 87.194.60.87 (talk) 20:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

There is a sub-plot in The Scarlatti Inheritance that revolves around stolen BB's. 70.90.174.101 (talk) 07:53, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

[..] pop culture references from this article. Completely unencyclopedic [..]

I disagree - to a point. Simply because there are "pop-culture references" type sections in other articles. However, there might simply be too many references. Or the question of what constitutes a "significant reference", versus "just an insignificant phrase thrown in for a small veneer of 'reality/respectability'" for some police procedural show (example being the episode of Law and Order Criminal Intent Cherry Red).

BTW, I also came here looking for more info on what bearer bonds were - after hearing about them in said police procedural.Jimw338 (talk) 16:15, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I came to this page specifically looking for pop culture references, thanks for making me go back to 2007. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.31.121.217 (talk) 01:12, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Several years later. I think since the real-world use of bearer bonds has all but ended, the interesting part of readers of Wikipedia will be how they are used in popular culture - like an alternate universe in which the goverment became indifferent to money laundering. I propose adding a popular culture references section. patsw (talk) 22:11, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pyat rublei 1997.jpg

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BetacommandBot 11:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Definition

Need to work this definition in the article somehow - I removed it from "History":

A bearer bond or bearer security is a certificate that represents a bond obligation of, or stock in, a corporation or other intangible property.

Also it should be pointed out that governments issue bearer bonds as debt instruments although this practice has been curtailed for reasons I have tried to explain in the article. Ellsworth (talk)

The definition defines a bearer bond as an equity share, which is contrary to the normal definition of bond. Bearer bonds are bearer credit instruments. The current definition seems more appropriate to a bearer share, which is a distinct concept. Qemist (talk) 11:58, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Correct amundo. I rewrote the article accordingly. Ellsworth (talk) 03:41, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I also dropped this section, it belongs in negotiable instrument:

Usage

While bearer instruments are rarely created as such, a holder of commercial paper with the holder designated as payee can change the instrument to a bearer certificate by an endorsement. In most of the United States, this has been codified in Article 3, Part 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code.

The proper holder simply signs the back of the instrument and the instrument becomes bearer paper. This is most often done with negotiable instruments such as promissory notes or checks.

Alternately, an individual or company may write a check payable to "Cash" or "Bearer" and create a bearer instrument. Great care should be taken with the security of the instrument, as it is legally almost as good as cash. Though in recent years, third party checks are not being honored by most banks unless the original payee has signed a notarized document stating such. -- Ellsworth (talk)

British Banknotes.

It should be pointed out that all British bank notes are,in effect,bearer bonds as they carry a promise to pay the bearer the amount stated on the note.This promise is made in the name of,and signed by, The Chief Cashier of The Bank of England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.196.125.43 (talk) 19:27, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

When one gives the Chief Cashier of The Bank of England British bank notes, what does he give to the bearer in return? 01:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

What you're really talking about is currency, aren't you? Paper issued by or payable by a national treasury or central bank is currency if it's defined as legal tender, otherwise it's considered a treasury note or bond. Bearer bonds, as fairly defined, generally refers to paper issued by a private entity or by a governmental entity other than a national treasury, such as a city, state or government department. Ellsworth (talk) 02:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Article doesn't give a clear idea of what a bearer bond consists of

For example, if I write on a bit of paper that I owe $50 to the bearer, is that a bearer bond? What if I write it out as an officer of some organisation? Is there (was there) some statutory requirement regarding the information written on the document (serial numbers, amounts, signatures, exact required wording etc.) Maybe the words, "Bearer Bond" have to be written on the document somewhere?

I have seen the term bearer bond mentioned in books, on television, and in films many times. I have also read the Wikipedia article - yet I am still not sure exactly what one would consist of.

The comment about British Banknotes further up this page goes further than the article to explain what a bearer bond actually is (assuming that it is correct). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.233.172 (talk) 08:16, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Redemption

I don't see a key point in the discussion of bearer bonds. How does one redeem bearer bonds for cash or other assets?170.213.132.253 (talk) 18:08, 29 December 2010 (UTC)S. Hart

You physically present the bond to the issuer with (if needed) proper assurance that any indorsements are authentic. Then issuer then is obligated to pay the redemption value (usually the face value and any accrued interest). Ellsworth (talk) 03:57, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The bond consisted of an ornate "body" which I guess was the bond. Attached to the bond were a number of small dated coupons. You cut these small coupons (which I suspect had both a date & an amount) and then presented them to a bank teller for cash.

In the early 1960s it was impressed upon me that these untraceable instruments were favorite forms of "payment" on Capital Hill. DEddy (talk) 21:25, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Banned in the USA?

Bearer bonds were not "banned" in the US in 1982, but the tax code was changed to make their use financially impracticable. 26 USC 103(b) requires municipal bonds to be registered in order for the interest payable to be tax-exempt to the payee, and 26 USC 163(j) requires corporate bonds to be registered in order for the interest paid to be tax-deductible by the obligor. Ellsworth (talk) 03:57, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Additional sources

https://nypost.com/2012/11/18/billions-in-bearer-bonds-could-be-lost-due-to-hurricane-sandy-sources/

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fl-billion-dollar-bond-20160824-story.html

http://www.business-standard.com/budget/article/govt-s-past-experiments-with-bearer-bonds-117020400059_1.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/08/14/business/elements-in-bearer-bond-issue.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/02/05/new-ubs-tax-evasion-probe-again-over-americans/#7e4cab0e547d

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-tax-irs-bearerbonds/irs-bearer-bond-tax-guidance-leaves-issuers-uneasy-idUSL2E8E6CDP20120307

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/economy/story/19810215-bearer-bonds-scheme-a-foolproof-way-of-converting-black-money-into-white-772645-2013-11-28

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/panama-papers-bearer-shares-1.3525434

-- John Broughton (♫♫) 05:24, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Morgenthaus

What's with the unattributed Morgenthaus part of this article? I don't see how that's reliable or belongs in the article. 2601:1C2:1A00:150:F840:3A6E:5BE7:7892 (talk) 05:14, 11 February 2022 (UTC)