Talk:Boleyn Ground

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East Ham[edit]

At that time the ground was in the Essex Urban Borough of East Ham, which later became a County Borough of Essex (West Ham across the road was already a County Borough).

It was only in 1965 with the merger of the two County Boroughs and North Woolwich to form Newham, that the area became part of London. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.176.235.153 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 3 January 2007

Boleyn Ground/Upton Park[edit]

Not being funny but wouldn't it make more sense for this article to be called Upton Park? I only found the page as I was looking at a list of Premier League grounds and I wondered who played there. I was suprised to find out it was West Ham. KingStrato 17:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Pretty much the only time you here "Boleyn Ground" is when people explain that the place isn't officially called Upton Park. So far as everyday English is concerned, it is called Upton Park. Oliver Han 12:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It should stay Boleyn Ground - It IS the Boleyn Ground at Upton Park, and as this is an encyclopedia so should use technically correct term and not the colloquial one. However, I do think there should be a redirect or a link if you search Upton Park.--Schmoozy 21:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. It's perfectly easy to find via "Upton Park". 122.57.177.70 (talk) 02:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

By WP:COMMONNAME, this article should definitely be called Upton Park, as that name is much more widely used. The point above about the official name being the Boleyn Ground is moot, as by that logic we should have "Ronaldinho" at "Ronaldo de Assis Moreira" etc. BigDom 21:00, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The ground is called the Boleyn ground, so the article title should reflect that. I would agree that Ronaldo de Assis Moreira would be the better title for the "Ronaldinho" article too. 86.26.5.83 (talk) 22:55, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling Corrections[edit]

Just corrected a few typos but i agree the article should be renamed Upton Park Irishmuppet 15:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Move reverted[edit]

I've reverted the move to Upton Park (stadium) per the R bit of WP:BRD as I feel this needs a full WP:RM discussion. There are a few reasons for this - the article has been at this title for a very long time, most of the talk page comments used to support the move are very old and recently I've seen the correct name being given more preference to the common name when the later is wrong. I'd also like to see some analysis of sources before the move is made. I currently think it should stay at this title but could be persuaded otherwise by a good argument. Dpmuk (talk) 17:28, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. "Upton Park" does come out as the most common name from my news searches, but "Boleyn Ground" does not come out as obscure (although it is much less common). WP:PRECISION recommends, for handling the ambiguity of titles such as "Upton Park", that we "choose a different, alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English, albeit, not as commonly as the preferred but ambiguous title (do not, however, use obscure or made up names)." If the potential subsequent discussion of what (if anything) is the primary topic of "Upton Park" determines that the stadium is the primary topic for that title, this should be moved to that base name (Upton Park), since it would not need the qualifier. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:55, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]


OK, at the request of the bloke who moved this I want to know who wants the article to be called Upton Park (stadium) and who wants it to be called the Boleyn Ground. Unreal7 (talk) 23:17, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 04:04, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Nearly always referred to as "Upton Park" in the media. First line of the article says it all: "The Boleyn Ground, more commonly referred to as Upton Park". Jenks24 (talk) 07:04, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as Common name - see Soccerway, Guardian and BBC. Eldumpo (talk) 14:50, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per common sense. Blindly sticking to WP:COMMONNAME when the common name is wrong is not, in my opinion, appropriate for an encyclopaedia. This is not a case of the general public not using a brand name, an abbreviated name or an old name that still has currency this is a name that is to put it simply, wrong. I note that none of the examples at WP:COMMONNAME are similar to this. I also note that the purpose of common name is that of least surprise to the reader. I would argue that this article being at Upton Park (stadium) will cause more surprise for the reader. Yes, immediately they may be more surprised to see this article at Boleyn Ground but after reading the article I'd suggest they'd be more surprised that an encyclopaedia has an article at an incorrect title. So keeping this article here is in the spirit of common name even if it doesn't strictly follow it. I would also like to point out that policies and guidelines are meant to follow what's happening "on the ground" so I find opposes that simply say oppose based on common name unhelpful as if we were always simply to blindly follow policy without addressing challenges to it we would never change policy. That said I also realise that changing policy in this way is ignored by many editors and is starting to become deprecated so I'll start an RfC. Dpmuk (talk) 15:05, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment seems to be more oriented towards discussing the principle of WP:Common name (which is policy), rather than providing any evidence that Boleyn Ground is well-used.Eldumpo (talk) 15:24, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes common name is policy but, as oft seems to be forgotten, policy should reflect what's happening on the ground and so we shouldn't blindly adhere to policy and instead discuss it "on the ground" (i.e. here for example) if it doesn't make sense in a particular case, as I contend it doesn't in this case, especially where the policy doesn't seem to have been written to cover the situation (as I believe is the case in this instance). After all WP:IAR is also policy. Realising that many editors don't realise that about policy and so will probably just say "common name" even if they disagree with it I've gone ahead and started an RfC. Dpmuk (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The confusion arises when people refer to Upton Park and that is taken to mean the stadium. The stadium is The Boleyn Ground and is in Upton Park, London. You may see references to Upton Park but very few to Upton Park (stadium) which is being discussed here. Of course people say Upton Park, that's where it is but it is not Upton Park stadium. As for common name - The Club, The Football League, The FA, The Guardian, BBC, Football Ground Guide, London Tourist Board and Manchester United refer to Boleyn Ground.--Egghead06 (talk) 15:48, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The argument that Boleyn Grounds is "correct" while Upton Park is "incorrect" is flawed. Boleyn Grounds may be the "offical name", but usage makes both names "correct". That said... I am leaning towards oppose here... this is a classic case of the goal of Recognizably conflicting with the goal of Unambiguity (see WP:Article titles for more on these). While "Upton Park" is the more common name of the two, "Boleyn Grounds" is not at all uncommon (and I question whether "Upton Park" is significantly more common). However, "Upton Park" can be confused with the geographical town of Upton Park (and thus would need the parenthetical disambiguation "stadium" in order to distinguish the two). "Boleyn Grounds", on the other hand is unambiguous. While we would normally favor the more common name, I think the need for unambiguity off sets normal practice in this specific case. Especially since "Boleyn Grounds" is not uncommon. Blueboar (talk) 16:21, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • I disagree that my argument is flawed although agree that it could've been better put. What I will also agree upon that from a wikipedia article tile point of view Upton Park is a correct title and so could be used. My argument is that it's not a correct name for the stadium outside of wikipedia and so we shouldn't be using it even taking common name into account. You may disagree on that but that doesn't mean my argument is flawed, merely that we have different opinions. Dpmuk (talk) 16:55, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Per the earlier comments both alternatives appear to be reasonably common, and the sources more close to football seem to use Boleyn Grounds more frequently. Therefore it doesn't look like a good idea to move it to a title that requires disambiguation, and "Boleyn Grounds" is also more concise than "Upton Park (stadium)". MakeSense64 (talk) 16:51, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Per WP:COMMONNAME. I did not know that Upton Park had a different name until reading the wiki-article (though I'm not English). I have even been to a quiz, where a question was "what's Upton Park's official name". Mentoz86 (talk) 19:12, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I rarely, if ever, hear it being referrred to as 'Boleyn Ground' in British media. It's always 'Upton Park'. GiantSnowman 08:44, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment :Every single version of the Rothman's/SKY Sports Football Yearbook refers to 'Boleyn Ground', Upton Park, London.--Egghead06 (talk) 14:54, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - the BBC refers to it as 'Upton Park'. GiantSnowman 17:30, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Re my comments above of 15 May and it can be seen that the BBC mix it as to which one to use. Many others (as quoted above) use Boleyn Ground. Next to no one ever uses Upton Park stadium. Upton Park is where it is (district of London) - there is no 'Upton Park stadium' and thats what the proposed move is.--Egghead06 (talk) 17:38, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

What's the most common target?[edit]

I know we've only just finished the move request, but some people did say in the move section that it may be true that when people search for Upton Park they are looking for the stadium and not the area or anything else. I just want to point out that Hibernian's stadium Easter Road is the primary topic ahead of the road of the same name, and the same with Liverpool's stadium Anfield being the primary topic ahead of the district of the same name. Something that confuses me in each of the secondary topics is that Anfield stadium is also in Liverpool and Easter Road stadium is also in Edinburgh. Also, Tannadice redirects to Dundee United's ground Tannadice Park ahead of a village of the same name and, and this is similar to what, the original move was based upon, St. Mirren's old ground St. Mirren Park is called Love Street (stadium) as it was located near a street called Love Street. So, I think either Upton Park should be moved to Upton Park (disambiguation) to allow Upton Park to redirect here, or more simply, if it can be agreed, this page gets moved to Upton Park. I'll go with what the majority agree on. What do you think?.

Also, look at Upton Park's talk page, there is someone else who thinks this too, although the comment is two years old. Unreal7 (talk) 08:27, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Leave it as it is. The district is Upton Park, London. The ground is the Boleyn Ground. In many footballing issues on Wiki we have said 'what do the club say'. For example transfer fees, if transfers have happened etc. In this case their official name is Boleyn Ground. No one has made any case for Commonname and definitely not for the use of the word 'stadium' after Upton Park'. To have the supposed name of the ground over the long established name of a district of London as a default is very odd --Egghead06 (talk) 08:33, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Newcastle's official name is the Sports Direct Arena, still called St. James' Park. Unreal7 (talk) 09:29, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A very weak argument; that's to do with sponsor's names not being accepted. GiantSnowman 10:28, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said above, St. Mirren's old ground, St. Mirren Park, was called Love Street as it was located in a street called Love Street. Unreal7 (talk) 18:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Video Screens[edit]

Changed to read "LED video screens" rather than "LCD screens" as LED is the technology used for the large format displays. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.78.33.66 (talk) 12:02, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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