Talk:Carlos Duarte Costa

Carlos Duarte Costa was a Philosophy and religion good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 15, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

Brazil Mid‑importance

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Biography

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Untitled[edit]

How does anyone know anything about Costa? What does the Catholic Church say about him, what are their sources, what does Brazilian history say about him. This article provides no real sources on the substance of his life other than web articles which are official sources of his church/sect. What if someone posted an article about Pius XII and used only Vatican sources. The whole article needs to be revised by someone not associated with Costa or his church.

While there is a real need for more secondary sources on Costa, the article does (as of July 2007) cite two different New York Times articles, a Time magazine article, and the Brazilian supreme court's archives website. These articles cover his criticism of Catholic hierarchy, his excommunication and founding of the new church, the court case where the government tried to close down the new church, and his obituary. Clearly more third-party documentation like this is needed, but at least this much is there. Timotheos 13:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hagiography?[edit]

This post reads like an article on Carlos Duarte Costa apologetics. All sources on substantive material is from his church. This article is of questionable neutrality. Can the editors provide other sources of information on Costa and any dissenting opinions?

Apologetics? Let's see: Loyal Catholics will object to Costa's blatant defiance of the Church hierarchy (including the Pope himself). Traditionalist Catholics will not be pleased with Costa's advocacy of reforms later implemented by Vatican II. Political conservatives will be unhappy that he wrote a glowing preface to a book blatantly supporting the Soviet Union. Pacifists will object to his moral and financial support of an insurrection. Religious conservatives will not be keen on his efforts to liberalize divorce laws. So, the way I see it, there's something about Costa here that will offend most anyone! :-)

Kidding aside, I have really tried to tone down the adulatory tone of the original article, which was copied straight from his church's website. I have referenced the source of each paragraph or key point, and added external references from Time magazine and the New York Times. I've Googled every website that references "Carlos Duarte Costa", including Portuguese, Spanish, French, and German-language pages. So there's not much more to be done to expand the breadth of the article. I will continue to review the article for remnants of blatant apologetics. If other changes are appropriate, let's make them. But let's not trivialize the subject matter: Costa was a vocal, outspoken opponent of Brazil's military dicatorship during a turbulent time in the country's history, and he was a big name back in the 1930s and 40s, enough so that Time magazine and the NYT had multiple stories about him. So this is a subject worth researching and reporting, and I'd like to try to work this into a "good article." Timotheos 21:00, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ties to the USA[edit]

Does anybody know if the Catholic Apostolic Church of Brazil has any formal ties here in the United States?

The Worldwide Communion of Catholic and Apostolic Churches (WCCAC) is the only US represantitve of the Dom Carlos's Igreja Catolica Apostolica Brasiliera. Anyone else who may lay claim to this, doesn't simply have any ties (anymore) to ICAB.

More Correctly[edit]

CACINA is only one descendant of ICAB and the second one at that. It was founded by +Joachim-Ladd who left the first US mission of ICAB, the Western Orthodox Church in America, after many years of disagreement with +Luther of the Servants of the Good Shepherd (SGS). It did at one time enjoy the Patriarch's Apostolic blessing, however this ceased in all forms after CACINA changed it's policy regarding the ordination of women to Holy Orders. It has no official dealings with the Brazilian Church at this time, as confirmed by the Patriarch's Apostolic Delegate to the United States, Bp. Andre Queen of Chicago. The only church in America who is officially listed in communion with ICAB (by ICAB) and who enjoys membership in the International Communion of Catholic Apostolic National Churches, is The Catholic Apostolic National Church(USA) [[1]] . (Scroll down that page to see pictures of The Third International Bishop’s Council of the National Apostolic Catholic Churches (ICAN), In Brasilia, Brazil, July 11 – 16, 2005). Pax! Dcn. Steve (Slohrenz 14:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC))[reply]

GA Failed[edit]

This article should not have been brought up for review given the already mentioned criticisms above about the non-reliable non-third party reference for the bulk of this article. The man's own Church is not a valid source! An article built up in such a manner cannot be trusted to not be POV via exclusion of conflicting details and/or facts. The article does have third-party sources so it doesn't quick fail - but those sources are (collectively) cited only half the number of times the ICAN site is cited! Moreover, they are used to cite material not strictly involving Costa (we know about Ratlines and the founding of his Church and its spread is public record). Also, why didn't this talk page have a GA nomination tag? Also, self nominations are not encouraged. Please read Wikipedia:Verifiability as well. --Meowist 03:31, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]