Talk:Caryl Chessman

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A brown thought[edit]

"The Chessman affair put then-governor of California, Edmund G. "Pat" Brown, an opponent of the death penalty, in a difficult situation."

How can Brown be an opponent? He oversaw so many executions!

Brown was Governor of the State of California from 1959 until his defeat by Ronald Reagan in 1966. He left office in 1967. During his tenure he did not sign many death warrants aside from People vs. Elizabeth Duncan, et al. That was a rare triple execution in 1962. Brown was a Roman Catholic and was personally opposed to the death penalty. However, as governor of California he was sworn to uphold the laws and that meant signing death warrants. So, he really didn't "oversee" that many executions. Unlike former Governor George W. Bush of Texas.T.E. Goodwin 04:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

added: Also there was much unsourced conjecture about Brown's motivations for not pardoning Chessman.

If memory serves, the principal reason for all of the appeals was that the court reporter died before transcribing his/her notes. Furthermore, the reporter used an idiosyncratic / obsolete shorthand. BillDrissel 20:46, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As the article states, the California Constitution at the time required the concurrence of the Cal Supreme Court who voted 4-3 against clemency. An outright pardon would have meant Chessman would have been released, something no governor would have done and an outcome Chessman did not deserve. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.198.30.48 (talk) 20:01, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To have, and have not[edit]

In the Public Appeals section it states "In addition to giving him world-wide notoriety, the books earned Chessman hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalties", yet that section or elsewhere makes no mention of how Chessman used the money or how it was distributed after his death. Did Chessman in fact receive that much money? Is that how he financed his numerous appeals? Perhaps Chessman is actually prison's greatest con man, writing about his crimes then using the funds to finance his defences! Or did the prison retain the profits? This all took place before the laws were passed barring criminals from further profiting from their crimes.~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Radzewicz (talk • contribs) 21:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bush whacked[edit]

Quote:"Unlike former Governor George W. Bush of Texas"

You think you can stay on topic? Bush has nothing to do with this case, or this entry. (24.62.126.170 (talk) 21:30, 5 October 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Execution[edit]

"In 1954 or 1955, California repealed the Little Lindbergh Law and converted the death sentences of those who had been convicted under its statutes to terms of life in prison."

Well? Which was it, '54 or '55? -- Davidkevin (talk) 08:14, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GGA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 102.158.174.249 (talk) 13:04, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Alice Meza[edit]

I removed the sentence about Mary Alice Meza being put in a mental hospital "for the rest of her days." For one it was unsourced information and I found nothing that could verify it. For two I think I found information that blatantly contradicts it. I found an obituary for a Mary Alice Meza who died not too long ago. She was a school teacher and had a family. The obituary doesn't mention anything about the rape, but I doubt it would no matter what. I don't know that it's the same woman, but that would be a pretty huge coincidence given that the age and her reisdent State are the same. If in fact that is the same woman then obviously she did not live in an institution for the rest of her days. I did read that she suffered a nervous breakdown nineteen months after the rape. But that doesn't mean she was hospitalized for life. Many people have nervous breakdowns, very few end up with lifetime stays at psych wards as a result. She went through a trying ordeal but a lifetime in a mental hospital is a pretty out of the ordinary result so I'm not buying it without a source. Again I found nothing that supported it and I found something that may very well prove the assertion wrong.Jdlund (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:17, 15 February 2010 (UTC).[reply]

If the obituary was for Mary Alice Meza, a married woman (and I assume "she had a family" means that), I doubt that it is in reference to Chessman's victim. Why would she still be using her maiden name? If you could provide a link, it should mention her age, and where she came from, so there would little doubt. I'm a bit skeptical about this (24.62.126.170 (talk) 21:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC))[reply]

The woman in the obituary is not the same one. She was two years too young, 15 years old when Chessman was arrested. Eauhomme (talk) 04:59, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I found an obituary for a Josephine Meza, November 4, 1923 - March 19, 2019. She seems to be listed as the oldest daughter in this family. The obit lists her youngest sister as a Mary Alice Vega. At 17 years of age, Mary Alice Meza would have been born in 1930, or 1931 (more likely 1930), so the time frame fits. I have not been able to find any information on Mary Alice Vega. (The Alvin Sun newspaper. Alvin Texas March 21, 2019) (JFM)

Mary Alice Meza’s mother was named Ruth and she was a Caucasian. She did an interview with Ned Leferve in 1959 on a short film called FollowUp. There’s a YouTube video of this. The Josephine Meza obituary is about a family from Texas and both of her parents were Latino. Almost no chance she is related to Mary Alice Meza.

Also, in the YouTube video which was done in 1959 - the mother mentions her daughter is in a very bad mental condition. I read in a court transcript that Mary had been hospitalized within 19 months after the attack. She was confine at the Camirillo Hospital for the mentally ill and was diagnosed as schizophrenic. Thebestjim (talk) 02:29, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7rn4XPc2Js Thebestjim (talk) 03:52, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deletionism Lives[edit]

A large chunk of material was recently slashed out of this article by User:Wildhartlivie, with the one word comment "trivia". I would not suggest that this is perfect as-is, but (1) the sheer quantity of it shows something about the historical significance of the subject (2) I want to raise the question of whether deletionism like this is really the solution to any problems with this material. Here it is, in total, including the heading... --Doom (talk) 01:27, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Chessman in popular culture[edit]

  • While on death row, Chessman sold the rights to his autobiography, Cell 2455, Death Row to Columbia Pictures. The book was made into a film of the same name, directed by Fred F. Sears in 1955, with William Campbell as Chessman. Chessman's middle name, Whittier, was used as the surname of his alter ego protagonist in the film.
  • The famous radio and TV program, Dragnet, aired two episodes that were heavily inspired by Chessman's criminal activities called “The Big Badge”, in which the criminal was similarly given the nicknames “the Badge Bandit” and “the Red Light Bandit”, in which the crimes are similar to Chessman's, except that the perpetrator murders one of the victims.
  • Chessman is mentioned on the Genesis album The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway in the track “Broadway Melody of 1974” in the lyrics “…the cheerleader waves her cyanide wand there's a smell of peach blossom and bitter almond. Caryl Chessman sniffs the air and leads the parade. He knows, in a scent, you can bottle all you made….”
  • The 1977 movie Kill Me If You Can, with Alan Alda, was based on Chessman's story.
  • He is mentioned in the fiction book By Reason of Insanity by Shane Stevens, in which a serial killer's actions are driven partially by the belief that he is Chessman's son.
  • Singer Johnny “Country” Mathis performed “Caryl Chessman” for a D Records single. The song was written by Eddie Hollowell and re-issued by Top Rank International on the EP Country And Western Express, Vol. 5, and on the God Less America CD and LP in the U. S.
  • Chessman was referred to in a song called “The Lifer” which was recorded at Michigan's Marquette Prison in September 1962. It was written by Al Gliva, prisoner #62055 according to the 45 RPM single picture sleeve. It was sung by Roger Chase, and released on Longhorn Records.
  • A song by the Argentine rock band Patricio Rey y sus Redonditos de Ricota entitled “Un tal Brigitte Bardot” (“A certain Brigitte Bardot”, only available in old bootleg versions and never released officially by the band in any of their albums) mentions Chessman in its lyrics.[citation needed]
  • Poet and San Quentin parolee, William Wantling, wrote a poem about Chessman, describing him as "bathed in gas."
  • The mental asylum that plays a pivotal role in the X-Files Episode “Daemonicus” is named after Chessman.
  • Chessman is mentioned by French singer Nicolas Peyrac in his nostalgic 1975 song So Far Away From L.A..
  • In 1967, French songwriter Serge Gainsbourg wrote a song about Chessman, “Qui se souvient de Caryl Chessman?” (“Who remembers Caryl Chessman?”), which was recorded (with France Gall as background singer), but never released. He also appears in Gainsbourg's “Dispatch Box” from the album You're Under Arrest.
  • A Cruel and Unusual Night, a 1964 episode of Kraft Suspense Theatre, was inspired by the execution of Chessman, specifically the phone ringing moments after the cyanide had dropped.
  • Chessman is mentioned in the novel Self-Defense by Jonathan Kellerman. In the story, a fictional author and artist is described as becoming an advocate for a convicted career criminal. He helps him get paroled and publishes his jail diary, which becomes a best-seller. The protagonists discuss the similarities to Chessman's case, along with references to Norman Mailer's advocacy for Jack Abbott, and William Buckley's for Edgar Smith, (chapter 10, p. 78).[2]
  • Chessman is mentioned in the novel "Jailbird" by Kurt Vonnegut. In the story, a jail warden describes the attitude of main character Walter Starbuck as akin with Chessman's last words: “It's all right.”
  • As of 2000, Mexican Luchador Kevin Citlali Zamora uses the ring name Chessman in reference to the real Caryl Chessman.
  • In the Ed Sanders story "Chessman", published in Tales of Beatnik Glory in 1975, the execution of Chessman is presented as the beginning of The Sixties: a key politicizing event provoking wide-spread protests.
  • The Merle Haggard song, "Sing Me Back Home," references Chessman.[3] Haggard has stated on television (Investigation Discovery channel) that his time as a young man in prison in a cell near Chesman's cell on death row gave Haggard an opportunity to talk to and befriend Chessman. Haggard has stated that he became convinced that Chessman was innocent and was upset at his eventual execution, but the experience helped to turn his life around.[4]206.255.202.192 (talk) 12:24, 8 June 2010 (UTC)JME[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Mutiny on the Bounty by BritMovie.co.uk".
  2. ^ Kellerman, J. (1995). Self-Defense. New York, N.Y.: Bantam.
  3. ^ http://www.executedtoday.com/2010/05/02/1960-caryl-chessman-red-light-bandit/
  4. ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merle_Haggard

Sentence "never repealed"[edit]

I've removed the following because (a) doesn't anyone remember in what year the law was repealed?' (b) if Cal. "converted" the death sentences, how was CC left out?; (c) clemency redundant to next paragraph.

In 1954 or 1955, California repealed the Little Lindbergh Law and converted the death sentences of those who had been convicted under it to terms of life in prison. [citation needed] Some of these inmates earned parole years later; Chessman, however, never had his sentence repealed. His sentence was upheld, and Brown refused to grant clemency.

EEng (talk) 11:45, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

gas chamber communication[edit]

I believe Chessman had pre-arranged to signal to someone whether he was suffering during the execution and repeated this signal vigorously.--Jrm2007 (talk) 17:02, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article is skewed toward the fame, sensationalism, and ego elements[edit]

What about the VICTIMS of this despicable sociopath/psychopath evil Chessman, who really did not give a rip about anybody else on the planet, including women and children? The victims' lives? Their suffering and trauma? This article just continues the manipulation (and hints of legal maneuvering) that Chessman himself did, during his life, which was despicable then and is despicable now. This article, if anything, ought to MAINLY focus on the VICTIMS, with photos and statements. The nation would obviously have been better off if the evil Chessman had been executed 10 or 20 years earlier. That would have saved more future victims. Starhistory22 (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's unsurprising that an article whose subject is Caryl Chessman is mostly about Caryl Chessman. TJRC (talk) 20:33, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Help with article addition[edit]

On behalf of my employer, Joseph Rodota, I would like to propose an addition to the article. Under the “In Popular Culture” section of this page, please consider a mention and linking to a new play by Rodota, titled CHESSMAN, which portrays the final months of Chessman’s life, as seen through the eyes of Governor Pat Brown and his family. The current governor of California, Jerry Brown, appears in the play as a young seminarian. CHESSMAN premiered in October 2016 at the B Street Theatre in Sacramento, California. The theatre is a core member of the National New Play Network and the play received significant news coverage as well as a review.

Here are the relevant links:

www.ChessmanPlay.com http://www.sacbee.com/entertainment/arts-culture/article108822827.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-ol-patt-morrison-joseph-rodota-caryl-chessman-20161012-snap-story.html http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article107782622.html

The text we would like to propose for the "In Popular Culture" section is as follows:

"A play, titled CHESSMAN, portrays the final months of Chessman’s life, as seen through the eyes of Governor Pat Brown and his family. The current governor of California, Jerry Brown, appears in the play as a young seminarian. CHESSMAN premiered in October 2016 at the B Street Theatre in Sacramento, California."


I am happy for someone to review the proposed text to make sure it is balanced, neutral, and appropriately sourced. I am also happy to provide additional specificity as needed. Thank you for your thoughts. Kb1455a (talk) 19:58, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've added it, but as a single-sentence statement to be more in line with WP:UNDUE, and without the promotional aspect.

External links modified[edit]

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