Talk:Chinese Buddhism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject China (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Buddhism (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Buddhism. Please participate by editing the article Chinese Buddhism, or visit the project page for more details on the projects.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Religion (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Uh, nothing about modern/20th century persecution?[edit]

What the hell is with the total lack of mention of the persecution of Buddhists under the communist regime? That's sort of massively important. Was it deliberately left out, or what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.235.87 (talk) 01:05, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

If you would like to add in some facts about it in an appropriate section, that would be fine. The modern era does need more basic information, and a short section on that subject might be helpful. I've been rewriting the page so it's actually useful, but I've only gotten about half done with it. The second half of the article is still very unbalanced. Originally, just a few esoteric masters from the Tang Dynasty took up about half the page.
Actually, every part of traditional Chinese culture underwent persecution at that time. Even many martial artists were persecuted just for practicing gongfu, and had to go into hiding up into the mountains. It was difficult for many parts of Chinese society, and Buddhism was just one target, albeit a big one. In the modern era, the government actually gives a ton of money to Buddhist temples because they see it as a part of Chinese culture that they can show off. Now the beauty of the temples and the resources available at them are really incredible. Even many older Buddhists don't see a conflict between singing the praises of Mao and chanting Namo Amituofo. Tengu800 (talk) 05:27, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Buddhists?[edit]

What are Buddhists called in China? Would be good to mention. Sylvain1972 (talk) 15:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

佛教徒 (fójiào tú). 佛 means "Buddha", 教 means "teaching" or "religion", and 徒 means "disciple", "follower", or "pupil". The Chinese word for Buddha is composed of the particles "person" and "not", with the meaning of anatman, or the principle of no-self. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tengu800 (talkcontribs) 06:16, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

In general[edit]

Shouldn't Dao/Tao be standardized throughout the article? 140.247.51.26 (talk) 20:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)anon

The "modern Buddhism" section was renamed "Buddhism in Contemporary China", and it should (in addition to my renaming it) be deleted or almost completely rewritten.

The majority of the section seems to discuss the situation of Buddhists in China, how Buddhism compares to Christianity and/or Communism there...the author digresses almost immediately into speculations and assumptions about the nature other people's assumptions, without delivering any of the basic facts about modern buddhism. (Normal use of the term "modern" engenders expectations of a history extending forward from about 1800; we need a paragraph or two that describes those features of the religion's history. What about the era in which the six schools (Pure Land, Ch'an, etc.) begin to combine with one another?

There's nothing in here about Bodhidharma and Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism at the Shaolin Temple... the fusion of Taoism and Buddhism.. Was this event significant in the overall picture of Buddhism in China, or were the Ch'an practitioners a minor offshoot of mainstream Buddhism? How should this be worked in? Kwertii 21:17, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Current status of the article is way far from complete. Feel free to add those topics into the article. kt2 00:40, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The article does not enjoy representative proportions regarding the significance versus the length of its contents. E.g., the three esoteric teachers are given far too much space in such a short article (apparently text was copied from independent articles); these subsections should be greatly reduced. And per Kwertii above: where's is Bodhidharma? Ch'an? Elfelix (talk) 03:42, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Imperial favour[edit]

"Buddhist monks enjoyed imperial favour" is inaccurate. There is no single sovereign of the Han dynasty who supported Buddhism systematically in China over a significant period.

A extract from the Zizhi tongjian: "Since the time of the Yongping period [of Emperor Ming: 58-75 AD] there were officials and common people who had practised the arts of Buddhism, but the Son of Heaven himself had never paid them attention. Emperor Huan was the first to give this teaching respect and take a personal interest in the ceremonies. Because of this, the Buddhist doctrines gradually gained influence, and it was for that reason Xiang Kai mentioned them."

Although Emperor Huan was known to have been a worshipper of the Buddha and Laozi, his religious practices were generally criticised by Confucian officials. During his reign a number of shrines in the provinces were destroyed for heretical abuses. Nevertheless, Buddhism probably reached a level of "acceptance" but not "imperial favour" around the 2nd century.

The official Xiang Kai (mentioned in the above extract): "Again, I have heard that sacrifices have been held within the palace to Huang-Lao and the Buddha. Their teachings are those of purity and emptiness, with particular emphasis on action only in accordance with the way. They love life and hate killing, they eliminate desires and reject ostentation."

--Jie 04:21, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Obscure vs. Highly Regarded[edit]

This is a fairly drastic edit. I will be fact-checking this. Could the editor possibly give a reference? Knexfreak111 17:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

A minor inaccuracy[edit]

I am not an expert on translation, but even from primary school I learned the "Yuezhi"(liberally) should be pronounced as "Rouzhi" which is closer to its origin. Perhaps this linguistic legacy is better passed on than left into oblivion.

Comment: This is already discussed in the article on Yuezhi, which is probably a more appropriate place. P345 17:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Moton and Chufarlan[edit]

Can anyone provide a justification for these two names? The Wikipedia standard is Hanyu Pinyin, in which case the names should be transliterated as Moteng and Zhu Falan (since Zhu is an ethnonym which was treated as a surname in classical Chinese usage, it should be separate from the rest of the name). I am unable to discover the source of "Moton and Chufarlan" though I suspect the old French EFEO romanization system; many English-language Web usages seem to mirror Wikipedia. I don't want to cut them out if there is a reason to keep them -- can anybody provide one? Meiruo 03:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

In the absence of any response to this, have gone ahead and changed the page to reflect the pinyin standard Meiruo 00:44, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Tibetan Buddhism in China[edit]

The article is named "Buddhism in China" but there is no mention of Tibetan Buddhism in it. Furthermore, the opening paragraph of the article begins with the phrase, "Chinese Buddhism", which has quite a nationalistic flavour. Is there something I should know about here? Has Tibetan Buddhism been expunged from the history of Buddhism in China? Or is it too hot to handle here? I'm not intending to be provocative. I came to this article hoping to learn about Tibetan Buddhism in China.

Moonsell (talk) 16:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi Moonsell. There's an article about Buddhism in Tibet. The present day political status of Tibet is described in that article. Maybe you would want to add a parenthetical note to this article, like:
Tibet, the historic seat of the Vajrayana school of Buddhism that dominates Central Asia, is currently a "province-level autonomous region", the "Tibetan Autonomous Region", in the People's Republic of China. See Buddism in Tibet.
There is too much signifigance in Tibet's historical role as the seat and center of "Tibetan Buddhism" for this to be obsucured by its current political status, imho. Obviously the subject is a bit of a fire cracker, and this is a collabotative effort, so a little diplomacy will work better than shock tactics. OldMonkeyPuzzle (talk) 00:01, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Your criticism is well-founded. I'm brash and too candid. Please understand what I wrote as a genuine expression of perplexity rather than shock tactics. I don't want to intrude on this article, but I was hoping to understand it better. It might be renamed from "Buddhism in China" to "Chinese Buddhism", which would allow a clearer distinction from lama jiao. Thank you for your reply.Moonsell (talk) 15:48, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
There is, at this time, the one line in the article, "The official religion of the Qing court was the Gelukpa School of Tibetan Buddhism." This is the sort of thing you're talking about, right, Moonsell? There has been, and is now, some practice of Tibetan Buddhism by non-Tibetan Chinese in China outside Tibet. It would be interesting to know more about that. Bertport (talk) 16:12, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Please help me with this problem![edit]

For the article: "Buddhism in China", there was given a quotation from Hou Hanshu, translated by John Hill. I could not find this quotation in Hou Hanshu. Hou Hanshu has many pages. Where is this quotation to be found? In which section of Hou Hanshu, 本纪(ben-ji), 志(zhi),列传(lie-zhuan) or what?

I would be very thankful if someone is able to help. Suminxue (talk) 19:08, 15 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suminxue (talkcontribs) 19:04, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Modern Chinese Buddhism and 1 billion Chinese being Buddhist[edit]

In the section titled Modern Chinese Buddhism the last sentence states "Now over 1 billion Chinese are Buddhist." I'm not sure how this wasn't instantly deleted, but it is entirely inaccurate. There are not 1 billion Buddhists on earth, let alone in China. If anyone has the actual figure, please add it -in the interim I am going to delete the sentence.

Shantideva (talk) 04:13, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

dfvdvfkldjte5tj ejrtjern itdfg,opbkgho 67 i5u8e57 ti —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.242.174.220 (talk) 21:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

You can see all the estimates I've found at [1]. Peter jackson (talk) 11:07, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, link doesn't work for some reason. Here you are:

Estimates of numbers (note that it is not always clear whether these numbers include followers of Tibetan Buddhism inside Communist China, and/or followers of Chinese Buddhism outside):

  • 36,000,000: Christianity Today, July 13, 1998, page 33
  • 90,000,000: WCE, Volume 2, page 10; this excludes Tibetan Buddhists; it is unclear whether it includes Chinese outside Communist rule
  • 95,000,000: TWR, page 100
  • 102,000,000: Russell Ash, The Top 10 of Everything, Dorling-Kindersley, New York, 1997, pages 160f
  • 103,000,000: 1997 Britannica Book of the Year, pages 781-3
  • 105,828,542: WCE, Volume 1, page 191; this figure is for all Buddhists in the People's Republic, including Hong Kong
  • 250,000,000: Harvey, page 8
  • more than 300,000,000: Shaw
  • 669,308,405 to 1,070,893,447: [2]

Peter jackson (talk) 11:10, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Further apologies: I need to explain the refs:

  • WCE: World Christian Encyclopedia, 2nd ed, Oxford University Press, 2001
  • TWR: The Times World Religions
  • Harvey, Introduction to Buddhism, Cambridge University Press, 1990
  • Shaw, Introduction to Buddhist Meditation, Routledge

Peter jackson (talk) 16:08, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved per request. - GTBacchus(talk) 18:31, 19 August 2010 (UTC)



Buddhism in ChinaChinese BuddhismChinese Buddhism and Buddhism in China are two somewhat distinct concepts, one refers to a special brand of Buddhism, the other one to all brands of buddhism that are practiced within China. The second includes Tibetan Buddhism, which is, according to (e.g.) this text, 'worlds apart' from Chinese Buddhism. Some easy-to-observe markers for that distinction between Chinese and Tibetan Buddhism might be the prayer wheel and, maybe, the usage of certain languages.

Anyway, the article at present seems to deal only with the first concept, a bit like an article for Ducks in Beijing that only deals with Peking ducks.

Yaan (talk) 13:53, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Duplicate content cleanup[edit]

The current "Arrival of Buddhism in China" section duplicates the Silk Road transmission of Buddhism article. I'll link it as the main article, make some revisions, and later will cut down this section. Keahapana (talk) 22:49, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Bodhidharma[edit]

We've had this discussion over and over again at the Bodhidharma-article, but I like this source. So I've copied info from the Bodhidharma-page to a note on his possible birthplaces, including Persia. And I've added the reference for Persia to the Bodhidharma-article and to Bodhidharma/Birthplace sources. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 21:34, 19 February 2013 (UTC)