Talk:Dogri language

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Please use modern linguistics. Read dialect vs language section. Pahari/Dogri is an official language of Kashmir and Himachal. In Kashmir it has had recognition for over 100 years. Please see Dogri stamps and franks in the reference links.


Political patronage doesnot a language make. Dogri in linguistic terms is very much an outer Punjabi dialect this fact will remain so for centuries to come in linguistics not in politics though thats a totally different story dogri became a language politically when dogras allied with the Biritish and set up their own state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.76.44 (talk) 03:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

By that logic Punjabi is a dialect of Hindi, always was and always will be. If you agree to first make that change on the Punjabi language page we can discuss it here. Otherwise your edit is simply a wishful expansion of the definition of Punjabi. Dogri/Pahari speakers have never agreed that Dogri/Pahari is a dialect of Punjabi. Hindi-speakers understand Punjabi better than Punjabi speakers understand Dogri. Dogri has always had a distinct vocabulary and script from Punjabi. Your theory is incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluedroid (talk • contribs) 03:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And now you're making your own assumptions about Dogri's relationship with other languages, though the IP user was equally misguided. Punjabi and the Pahari languages share features like tonality that they don't with other tongues; they are both Northwestern Indo-Aryan and Dogri's original script, Takri, was a sister script of Gurmukhi. Their vocabulary is also quite similar overall, and there is high mutual intelligibility, believe me, as a Punjabi speaker, more so than Hindi. There is a close dialect continuum in this region. The article's Tonality section applies almost exactly to Punjabi, in tone and vocab. I have no problem regarding Dogri as a separate language; languages like Punjabi, Saraiki, Dogri, etc. can be highly mutually intelligible and different at the same time. The IP thinks they are the same and you think the difference is huge (that's your own wishful thinking) and you're both wrong. 3swordz (talk) 12:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is true of Dardic languages too. The entire cluster of languages of Northwest India and Pakistan experienced aspiration-loss and developed tonality to compensate. I think the point about a continuum is a good one. You go from Khariboli into Haryanvi (which already has lots of words Punjabis would recognize) into eastern Punjabi into Majhi into northern Punjabi (eg Mirpuri) into Southern Dogri into Northern (aka "pure" or Pahari) Dogri into Rambani into Southern Kashmiri into Middle Kashmiri into Northern Kashmiri into Shina. Any set of close neighbors find each other comprehensible, so can throw allegations of "you are a dialect of me," depending on political power. Khariboli speakers from Western UP and Haryana who say words like "urey" (here), "parey" (there) and "mi" (rain) will consider eastern Punjabi a related language and find it highly intelligible, which Awdhi speakers of Hindi will not. Similarly, Northern Dogri speakers who say stuff like "Jaagte gi galayi gatshche" (Let's go call the boy) will say "Punjabi and Dogri are not at all alike" while Southern Dogri speakers who say "Munde gi galayi jache" will hear the Northern Punjabi "Munde ki bula'an jasi" and say "yes, they are mutually intelligible." In the eastern periphery, Maithli and other Bihari languages similarly take Eastern Hindi into Bengali. Southwards, Punjabi transitions into Seraiki which goes into Sindhi, then into Kuchhi and then into Gujrati. So, I think both positions are right. "Do Punjabi and Hindi have a dialectical relationship?" The answer is both yes and no: it depends on which Hindi and which Punjabi you are talking about. "Do Dogri and Punjabi have a dialectical relationship?" Same answer. Do Pahari and Kashmiri have a dialectical relationship? Same answer. I think what happens is that major population centers have political gravity (Punjab, Kashmir Valley, Sindh, UP) and they attempt to classify languages between them as subsets of themselves. When these middle areas achieve some power, they attempt to center the standard on themselves as well. The whole dialect-language thing is a sociopolitical phenomenon. I think it is expressed well in the article actually, so I'd make no changes. --Hunnjazal (talk) 18:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are absolutely right. It's all politics, and any attempts to either subsume Dogri as a Punjabi dialect or to declare it completely independent from Punjabi is based on personal allegiances/rivalries and not keeping things in perspective. Your point about political gravity reminded me of "A language is a dialect with an army and navy." And the article is pretty decent. The best route is to both acknowledge their similarities and recognize them as distinct, and that the situation is complicated.3swordz (talk) 07:34, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dogri language template[edit]

If you are a native speaker of Dogri then you can help translate this template into your own language:


dgoइस प्रयोगकर्ते दी मातरी-भाशा डोगरी ऐ।

Edit


--Amazonien (talk) 04:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Takri Script for Dogri[edit]

Why was the indigenous Takri script used for writing Dogri abandoned in favour of the non-native Devanagri script in the 1940's. What happened in the 1940's? Did Dogri speakers start hating their own script all of a sudden or was it under pressure form some organization like Arya Samaj or Congress etc. that they abandoned it. Its very puzzling how could people abandon the way of writing their own language and adopt something alien that doesnot even suit their language in pure linguistic expression!! Takri characters are beautiful and can be seen on the description below the Basholi paintings from Jammu prior to 1950's. Is there a movement to bring back the Takri script for Dogri? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.75.168 (talk) 05:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Döğer[edit]

It seems to me that the whole discussion of the Turkish Döğer tribe/town is a red herring, unless we can come up with some reference to show that it has anything to do with Dogri. However, even if it did, I doubt any modern Turkish place name would have such an abundance of variant spellings (Doker, Duger, Döker and Düğer). Döğer and Döker would be well-formed in Turkish, as would Düğer and Düker, but a single place is unlikely to be called by all of them. Q·L·1968 ☿ 22:37, 10 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add Dogri script to the article[edit]

Please add Dogri script to the article, most specifically the Some common words section, which offers a few scripts, but is lacking the most obvious one: Dogri script itself Debresser (talk) 12:10, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nasta'liq spelling[edit]

The infobox currently uses ڈوگَرِی as the spelling in Perso-Arabic script. While the letters are fine, I'm a bit confused by the vowel diacritics:

  1. There is a fathah above the گ, which means the word should be pronounced "Dogari" (with a schwa after the "g"); I see no evidence that this pronunciation exists.
  2. The kasrah below the ر is redundant, as it's pretty much obvious that the terminating ی would be pronounced /i:/ with or without it.

Therefore, if no-one objects, I will replace ڈوگَرِی with ڈوگری as the spelling in Nasta'liq script in the infobox. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 18:15, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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