Talk:Electric Light Orchestra

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150 million + records sold[edit]

In all fairness, it HAS been estimated & speculated that ELO has sold in excess of 150 million records among fans and employees of the RIAA.

http://eloforever.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1187086172

How is stating that estimation and speculation among fans regarding ELO's sales totals has taken place an opinion? Calling ELO's material Beatlesque is opinion, and diverts attention away from ELO and towards The Beatles.

No offense was intended in this post. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheChurchMale (talkcontribs) 14:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Hold On Tight[edit]

My memory is failing a bit, but wasn't "Hold On Tight" also used for commercials in the 80's for the "Coffee Drinkers of America"? If I remember correctly these commercials showed up frequently on MTV at the time. I might be confusing this with a Weird Al spoof of the commercial. Anyone remember a little more clearly than I? --163.150.15.182 15:22, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

No, your memory is correct. It was a generic advertisement touting coffee; not any particular brand name. I can't remember who sponsored it (maybe the National Federation of Coffee Growers). It had a caption (or maybe a "voice over") that mentioned the "Coffee Generation" with Jeff Lynne singing in the background, "Hold on tight, to your dreams".

I remember quite clearly "Hold On Tight" used in commercials for milk, not coffee. This was a time before the "Got Milk" campaign, when milk was down in popularity. Afrayer 01:14, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

New Category[edit]

I've started a new category for fans, just type the following at the bottom of your user page {Category:Wikipedians who listen to Electric Light Orchestra}. The Equaliser 12:00 October 2006 (UTC)

Date inconsistencies[edit]

In reading this article I have noticed several inconsistencies between the dates in the text and the dates in the list of band members. The text states that the original ELO broke up after the release of a 1986 album, and the band member list confirms that this indeed took place in 1986, as the 3 remaining members (Lynne, Groucutt and Bevan) are listed as having departed in that year. OK so far. The next event in the text is Bevan forming "ELO Part II" in 1990. However, the band member list has Bevan, Groucutt, McDowell and Kaminski "rejoining" in 1988, and Eric Troyer (the only "original" member of Part II who was not in Part I) also joining in 1988. But, how could they have joined/rejoined a band in 1988 if it was not formed (or re-formed depending on how you look at it) until 1990, two years later? Unfortunately, that is not all. The text states that Lynne "reformed" ELO in 2001, but the band member list says he rejoined in 2000. The text also says that once ELO had been reformed (which was in 2001), "Richard Tandy rejoined the band a short time afterwards..." So one would expect to find in the band member list that Tandy rejoined in 2001 or 2002, or maybe even 2000 to match Lynne's rejoining (but not reforming!) date. One does not: The band member list says Tandy rejoined in 1999! He could not have, since ELO had not yet been reformed and Part II had gone out of business.

It also appears that although the text states that the former Part II members (other than Bevan) "have reformed under the name The Orchestra," this is not reflected in the band member list. Otherwise, there would be yet another rejoining date for Groucutt, Troyer and others, after 1999. I realize that this may be intentional rather than an error, since "The Orchestra" is now getting pretty far afield from ELO, mainly sharing a bass player/backing vocalist and a couple of part-time string players. However, it does add to the overall sense of confusion a bit.

I do not have any information that would resolve these conflicts, incongruities or whatever they are. My suggestion for anyone that does have such information is that once the correct dates have been figured out, to either list the members of ELO and Part II separately to reduce confusion, or if it is to remain one list, then next to the "rejoining" dates (after 1986), put in parentheses which band (ELO or Part II) the person was joining/"rejoining." Zeutron 03:26, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Band Member Inconsistencies[edit]

Is it accurate to say Tandy "rejoined" the band at all? The liner for Zoom mentions him as a "special guest" on "Alright" and to imply he rejoined from that is to say Ringo Starr (guest on "Moment in Paradise" and "Easy Money") and George Harrison (guest on "A Long Time Gone") joined the band.

From all indications, all that separates Zoom from being a solo effort by Lynne is the fact that Lynne credited the album to the band, rather than himself. Afrayer 01:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Marc Mann is given as joining the band in 2000, but is listed as performing on only one cut, "Moment in Paradise," on Zoom. Suzie Katayama is listed as playing cello on three cuts ("Just For Love," "Stranger on a Quiet Street," and "All She Wanted"), yet she isn't listed as a band member.

I'm interested in consistency. At what point is a performer considered part of the band, and not simply a guest? You can't say touring, since there are many cases where guests toured with bands (Michelle Branch touring with Carlos Santana coming to mind). Unless someone has access to the contracts, I propose you go by credit placement on the liners, and on Zoom that means Lynne is the only actual band member.Afrayer 01:49, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


Where is Dave Morgan listed? I didn't see his name in this section.

Do Ya[edit]

In the article, the paragraph relating to A New World Record refers to "Do Ya" as a re-release of a song by The Move. Is the song merely the same recording from one of The Move's albums spliced into New World Record, or is it a new recording? In the latter case, it should be listed as a cover or remake. Kouban 18:45, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

This matter has now been resolved The Equaliser 01:42, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

ELO re-recorded the song. Jeff Lynne originally wrote the song while he was a member of the Move (per-ELO). When the Move became ELO, the song "Do Ya" was melded into the hit single "10538 Overture" as a short medley. Eventually Lynne ELOized the song on the hit album, A New World Record.

The Orchestra during their 2002 tour of the US, performed the Move's version.

Band's-name-in-spanish controversy[edit]

There should be a reference to the origin of the band's name cause in some spanish-spoken countries the band is wrongly referred with the name of "Orquesta Luz Eléctrica", like if it was an orchestra named Electric Light (as the light that electric lamps emit), instead of thinking that is a lightweight orchestra that uses electric instruments. --Manuel Cuevas 23:02, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

It seems to me that either interpretation would be correct. Given that their first album had a big light bulb on the cover (at least the U.S. release), and an early version of the second album had it as well, the possible confusion was intentional -- it's a pun. So, "Orquesta Luz Eléctrica" doesn't seem so terrible. Truthfully, I'm so used to the name and was so young when I became familiar with them, I had never even thought about the "light orchestra" interpretation until now. Regardless, whatever discussion of the origin of the name would need to be sourced - it'd be good to have something authoritative from Roy Wood or Jeff Lynne describing what they were thinking rather than just assuming. -- RobLa 05:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Wow, I didn't realize that it was intended as a double meaning. I always thought, you know, the light that electric lamps emit. Reading this article (especially the trivia) has given me newfound appreciation for the band (I've liked them since college -- which was in the late 90s for me). --Tckma 02:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Having an authoritative comment would be great. I took account of this matter when I once saw an album of sci-fi movies themes from a Space Light Orchestra and since the Space Light term make few sense, I thaught that the same could be happen with ELO, I commented this with others that agreed with me. Also I've heard de Orquestra Luz Eléctrica name from an mexican radio station (Universal Stereo) notable for always try to translate all the songs and bands names into spanish, often with disastrous results (such as "Kiss on my list" translated as "Lista de besos" and things like that). --Manuel Cuevas 23:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
How about not translating it at all? You don't hear English speakers talk about Puerto Rico as Port Rich...
I'm with you --Manuel Cuevas 23:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
On the BBC Radio 2 programme transmitted on 7th July 2005, Jeff Lynne explained about the origin of the name. Back in the 1960's the band members were familiar with the usage on radio of "light orchestras", eg. the Midland Light Orchestra or the Southern Light Orchestra. So they decided to use a play on words, and settled on the Electric Light Orchestra - an intended pun! The subsequent use of the light bulb graphic inadvertently distracted fans from the original thinking behind the name. I'll leave it up to you chaps if you wish to include this in the main text for the ELO page. Rob Orland 21:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
There is also a quotation (I unfortunately can't source its provenance, but someone like Leon Theremin or some other musical innovator) in which the speaker expresses the desire that one were able to access the musical power of an entire orchestra as easily as switching on a lightbulb - anticipating the electronic synthesiser.
Nuttyskin (talk) 12:02, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Back in the 1960's the band members were familiar with the usage on radio of "light orchestras", eg. the Midland Light Orchestra or the Southern Light Orchestra. So they decided to use a play on words, and settled on the Electric Light Orchestra - an intended pun! indeed, these 'light' orchestras played lighter, more tuneful compositions, (as opposed to the 'heavy' classical music) - see Light music. 'Light music' was really the equivalent of orchestral pop music at a time when the average person in the street may not have had much liking for 'proper' Classical music. A big user of Light music was Ealing Studios so if you've ever watched an Ealing comedy you'll know the musical style. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk) 13:31, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Inspirations, Followers, Contemporaries, Similar Artists[edit]

Looks like it was ripped from All Music Guide. I think this is a copyright infringement. Mrbluesky 23:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


Yes I agree, It is now gone The Equaliser 17:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I also think LEO and all the Japanese art and samples should be either moved to one place rather than being weaved in with general ELO information.This would make things clearer because although samples,Japanese art cartoons and LEO and related tribute bands are relative to ELO,they should all be merged into a tributes or related section away from the main body of ELO history.

Also the Randy Newman piece is too long and would fit in better in Randy's own wiki section.

Also the US bias seems to dominate the whole piece and maybe it should not be assumed that Fire On High,is played throughout the world on Classic Rock Radio. Same thing goes for US film and tv trailers,seems unimportant to me as someone who lives in the UK.

I think it is looking better each day but still needs a tighter focus on ELO,with less related info overflow in its own section as I suggested earlier. Any thoughts on this? {Eloidle 22:04, 18 August 2007 (UTC)Eloidle}

"ELO" should not redirect here[edit]

"ELO" can refer to a number of things besides Electric Light Orchestra, as demonstrated by the previous disambig page that "ELO" was [1]. However, AmbigDexter claims that these are "false entries", which I have disagreed with on the user's talk page. I am contemplating weather to create ELO (disambiguation) or just revert ELO back to the disambig page. -albrozdude 00:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Sound Bites[edit]

What are the copyright regulations on sound bites? I've seen some articles post sound bites for, e.g., musical groups. However, I was thinking more along the lines of sound bites for the trivia section, i.e. "Please turn me over," or "The music is reversible... (etc.)". Since it's more than 10 years old, is it considered public domain? --Tckma 02:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

They won't be public domain for another 25 years or so; see Copyright law of the United Kingdom. However considering that The Beatles article has samples, it shouldn't be a problem (but IANAL). Otterdam 16:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
US copyright law makes an exemption for "Fair Use" for the "limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship" (from the introduction of the article on Fair use). The four-part test is:
  1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
  2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
  3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
  4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
Short samples to provide the reader with a reminder of ELO's unique sound would greatly add to the utility of the article. Sadly, Wikipedia is overrun with amateur bureaucrats who will come in and remove them. K8 fan (talk) 18:34, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Dr Who[edit]

What about setting up a trivia section with elo's prominent featuring in the recent Dr Who episode "Love and Monsters"? any thoughts....

Leonie Miller

That info was what I was looking for when I came to check out this article…Sigh…74.73.152.5 (talk) 10:16, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Electric Light Orchestra Part II[edit]

I suggest that information on this spin off band be given its own page. At the moment it shares credit with the main ELO page. - The Equaliser 00:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

ELO Videos and Links[edit]

Hold on Tight http://www.mediamob.co.kr/tearsfor/Post/PostView.aspx?PKId=50754

http://music.aol.com/artist/main.adp?artistid=4177

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&n=2&videoid=629173924&&Mytoken=159E80C4-BE2B-F18E-7D37146F5537044842748766

David Lee Roth, Steve Vai and Ben Beven http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjvs7mtf6iE&search=yankee%20rose

Should all the links to all the official and unofficial sites be removed,it does state in the terms about links to sites personal or otherwise are not acceptable.{Eloidle 22:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)Eloidle}

[edit]

The discography section is effectively an image gallery using the fair-use images as decoration and not critical commentary of the artwork itself. As such, they should probably be removed as displaying them in this fashion is not fair-use. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 19:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. How is it any different from the identical section on the Beatles article? Besides, Wikipedia:Fair use#Images says cover art is just fine. -- Scjessey 19:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Fair use#Images explicitly states that this is fair-use "for identification and critical commentary (not for identification without critical commentary)." The latter is the specific fashion in which the album images are being used. I spoke with another user on my talkpage some time back about this same thing; I brought up the topic on the WP:FU talk page: Wikipedia_talk:Fair_use/Archive_9#policy_quandry.3F and was supported (albeit not heartily) in that using album covers for decoration or identification w/o the cover art being the subject of the commentary does not fall under fair-use. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 19:35, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I disagree Many other major bands have a similar layout without anyone moaning at them where is the harm ,I have worked extensively on this rock bands profile for months now cleaning it up and presenting it and I am very proud of the way it looks now ,leave the page alone and let the light shine on! -- The Equaliser 09:51 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Song[edit]

My mother is curious which ELO song has no lyrics. Could ya help a boy? -Yancyfry 02:55, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, Fire On High from the album Face the Music contains nothing but a very heavily distorted voice in reverse; and The Whale from Out of the Blue is entirely instrumental. Hope that helps! Hassocks5489 12:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC) (ELO Fan)
    • First Movement (Jumping Biz)
    • Mahattan Rumble
    • Battle of Marston Moor (Roy Wood does 'Cromwell speech' at the begining of track)
    • Daybreaker
    • In the Hall Of the Mountain King
    • Eldorado finale
    • Fire on High
(The choir does sing "Fire On High")
    • The Whale
    • Believe Me Now (This track does have lyrics,"Believe Me Now"
    • Another Heart Breaks
("Another Heart Breaks"is spoken by Jeff Lynne)
    • After All
    • Grieg's Piano Concerto in A Minor
    • The Quick And the Daft

Hope this helps .

Maybe another listen,may help further. {Eloidle 14:09, 2 September 2007 (UTC)Eloidle)

All Over the world[edit]

Superscript text

The album was realesed in the USA I got the album!

-GD1223 —Preceding unsigned comment added by GD1223 (talkcontribs) 11:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Pop Masters/Pop Domination[edit]

What purpose does these sections serve? This is an encyclopedia article, not a shrine to a band's success. Very weaselly choice of acts, some of which weren't singles acts at all. Should both be taken down.

Vytal (talk) 18:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds a bit POV to me. Marlith T/C 18:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Reply:

What's the big deal guys? Can't a fan compare his/her favorite band's success to that of other bands who were active in the same period? Success based on numbers?

I'm trying to make ELO look better than they have on these pages... within the rules. Read what I claimed: ELO had more UK & US Top 40 Hits than any other band in the world from 1972 to 1986. The comparisons made aren't "weaselly" like Vytal stated.

After viewing The Beatles, Queens' and various other bands' home Wiki pages & discographies... I'd say the notion of removing information on ELO that had never before been on Wikipedia is kind of a hypocritical one, since many other bands' pages look like shrines to their respective successes...

Thanks.

-TheChurchMale —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheChurchMale (talkcontribs) 19:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ELO Band 1979.jpg[edit]

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Image:ELO Band 1979.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:41, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Confusion[edit]

I read through the article's sources, and found nothing as to the group having 46 top forty hit singles, rather 26. However, I wouldn't want to look stupid, so I'd rather not edit it myself.

Winnemuccan (talk) 01:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)Winnemuccan 3/8/08

There's a chart in an older version that makes this more clear (see the 2007-11-20 18:11 revision of this article). The claim seems to be correct based on my spot check, but it's kinda dubious. The time period (1972-1986) is of course the sweet spot for ELO, and other groups come out in front merely by tweaking the years (e.g. 1972-1989 puts Queen on top). There's at least one close contender that wasn't considered (Kool and the Gang), which makes me believe that there might be another band out there in the running even for the selected period. And of course, there are solo artists that cream ELO even inside this window (e.g. Elton John, Olivia Newton-John, Barry Manilow, Neil Diamond) -- RobLa (talk) 06:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Oops, I guess ONJ, Manilow, and Diamond, don't belong on the list, but Elton John makes up for all of them. -- RobLa (talk) 07:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh, David Bowie also makes the list (41 UK plus 11 US). There, I'll let it go now :) -- RobLa (talk) 19:39, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Collective Nouns and Plural form of past tense "To Be"[edit]

I would like to suggest changing the "to be" verbs where applied to "group" and "band" to the singular form. For example:

Change "Electric Light Orchestra, commonly abbreviated to ELO, were a rock group from Birmingham..." to "Electric Light Orchestra, commonly abbreviated to ELO, was a rock group from Birmingham..." and "It was in the United States that the band were first successful..." to "It was in the United States that the band was first successful...". Both a "band" and "group" are a collective nouns constituting a single unit. Additionally these sentences don't refer to actions or events relating to individuals within the group but rather events and actions taken by the band as a whole collective unit. Therefore I believe "was" would be more appropriate.Darthaho (talk) 03:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

But bands consist of individuals, and a band is usually and consistently referred to in the third person plural.
Nuttyskin (talk) 12:06, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
"usually and consistently" seems unusually inconsistent. For example, the sentence following the lede is "ELO was formed . . . " BruceSwanson (talk) 17:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
That is correct UK English. The difference is between where the emphasis is; the band as a discrete unit, or the band as a collection of individuals. You'll find it explained here. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 17:39, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:On The Third Day US cover.jpg[edit]

The image Image:On The Third Day US cover.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:56, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Trivia[edit]

I have removed the trivia from this article for the following reasons;

  • Trivia sections are discouraged and I cannot see a obvious place where this information should be included elsewhere. It's unimportant trivia.
  • "Lead singer of the band Brave Saint Saturn credits the E.L.O album Time as the start of the astro-rock music genre which brave saint saturn currently plays." - uncited opinion of singer for minor rock band. What makes his thoughts important? Why does the reader of this article care what Brave Saint Saturn plays? What proof do we have he said this anyway?
  • "The song "Twilight" was used as the opening animation for Daicon IV Japanese Convention as well as the opening song for the Japanese Drama Densha Otoko" - ELO's music has been used in thousands of occasions as backing for thousands of things. Do we list them all? Why are these instances important?
  • "In the Doctor Who episode "Love & Monsters," protagonist Elton Pope is an ELO fan. Version of the songs "Don't Bring Me Down," "Mr. Blue Sky," "Turn to Stone" and "Brand New Key" are featured." - As above. What's significant about this?

--Escape Orbit (Talk) 22:18, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

We can add to the above list the uncited trivia about Rock 'n' Roll Is King being used by a wrestling team. ELO's music is used in many places. We can't list them all, and what makes this significant? --Escape Orbit (Talk) 20:22, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

-- So because you can't list them all, we shouldn't list ANY of them. Yes, that's rational. Never mind that the "Doctor Who" episode has been seen by millions of viewers worldwide. If it doesn't fit with Escape_Orbit's worldview, it does not bear mentioning.

No, we should only list those that are significant to the article subject. Nothing here indicates why this particular use of ELO's music matters to ELO, or anyone interested in reading about ELO. It is perhaps significant to the Dr Who article, but is just one of thousands of other uses of ELO music as far as this article is concerned.
If you think it is significant to the subject of ELO, please cite from reputable sources an explanation why and it can be included in a relevant section that isn't trivia. Otherwise the end impression is one of "So what? Why are you telling me this? Why is this here?" Trivia cruft like this should be removed, otherwise it simply attracts more trivia, as evidenced above. Before you know it you have 50 uncited "examples" of ELO's music being used, none of which tell you anything of any importance, other than a general indication that their music is popular; something that the rest of the article already adequately establishes in a far more factual manner. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 10:16, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

-- OK, great god of ELO-ness ... whatever you say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.96.4 (talk) 17:31, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Out of the Blue tour technical advances[edit]

The tour for Out of the Blue featured two technological breakthroughs in touring shows.

It was the first time the sound system was suspended at each venue from the ceilings of the auditorium. It's common now via rigging points built into the speakers cabinets, but then speakers were loaded into specially constructed cages.

Additionally, the "lid" of the space-ship/stage being lifted was the first time electric winches were synchronized to lift stage machinery. If they had not been in perfect synchronization while lifting, the trusses contained within the lid would have warped and crashed onto the stage.

This was documented in stage and audio magazines at the time. Might be worth checking out. K8 fan (talk) 06:38, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Hall Of Fame[edit]

In relation to the entry on ELO not being inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame; "Also, as of 2009 they haven't been nominated for a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, ELO has been eligible since 1996."

You cannot add a 'fact' about what has not happened without also presenting the opinion that either it notably should happen, or that it is usual to expect it to happen. Otherwise there would be no point to mentioning it. Similarly, anyone could add other 'true' facts that are every bit as valid as this. For instance;

  • To date Jeff Lynne has not been knighted. He has been eligible since turning 18.
  • Electric Light Orchestra have not had statues of them erected in Birmingham. They came from there.
  • So far the national anthem of the United Kingdom has not been changed to Mr. Blue Sky. People know the words to Mr. Blue Sky.
  • Jeff Lynne is not given his shopping for free at his local supermarket. Supermarkets often play his hits on their public address system.
  • Jeff Lynne has not ever dropped around my place for a cup of tea. He has been welcome since 1978.

All the above are undeniably 'fact', but they are also uncited and suggest that the writer of the 'fact' thinks these situations should be reversed. That is an opinion.

Unless a reliable source lamenting ELO's lack of an induction can be cited, this 'fact' doesn't belong here. And even if one could, as an opinion it doesn't really belong in the lead, which should concentrate on actual facts. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 19:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Those 5 examples are completely ridiculous facts by themselves let alone when compared to this Rock and Roll Hall of Fame one, although I do see your point about it not belonging in the lead, it'll move further down that page. --TrekkiELO (Talk) 23:54, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Of course the 5 examples are ridiculous, I made them so deliberately to illustrate what I was saying. Although they are ridiculous they are every bit as 'true' and valid as the one in the article. No band gets nominated by default to the Hall of Fame, and while anyone has the right to consider it notable or anomalous that they have not, we only record the opinions of reliable sources in this article. This 'fact' is not cited and has not been raised by anyone of any notability, so doesn't belong here. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 11:40, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Discography inclusions[edit]

Can we discuss the merits of what should be included in this list like grown-ups, rather than tit-for-tat editing?

To start the ball rolling;

  • I'm suspect there are guidelines somewhere regarding this. But I can't find them. Anyone know?
  • Otherwise I think live albums are generally kept separate from new material in studio albums.
  • There have been (it seems) dozens of ELO compilations over the years. No point in listing them.
  • Whether the new album, Mr Blue Sky, of re-recorded hits counts as an original studio album, or just another compilation seems like a judgement call (unless guidelines can be found that say differently). I'd say it should be listed, but happy to be persuaded differently.

--Escape Orbit (Talk) 17:19, 21 September 2012 (UTC)


I'm all for that. Generally these sections only include regular studio releases (no compilations, EPs, or live albums). As for the new album I say it should be included, as the recordings on it do not feature on any other release so it is a new release under the ELO banner. Also, for what it's worth, the Arch Enemy Discography includes a similar release (The Root of All Evil).

Duncan3dc (talk) 19:57, 21 September 2012 (UTC)


Like an adult, I made my case for removal and showed everybody at least one precedence, I'm sure there are more out there, but again, Roy Orbison did the exact same thing from 1985-1987 by re-recording his original hits on In Dreams: The Greatest Hits and it's listed under his discography as a compilation, not as any of his proper studio albums, so Mr. Blue Sky and The Root of All Evil should both be removed as well.

I also seem to lose all these arguments one way or another anyway.

TrekkiELO (talk) 11:17, 22 September 2012 (UTC)


Aside from the fact that we can't add too much weight to existing articles, the Roy Orbison one isn't a great example as the main article doesn't list any albums so isn't really comparable. I presume the logic for not including certain releases on the main article discography is their significance to the history of a band. For example a live release or regular compilation isn't a signficant achievment or milestone for a band. However my argument is that Mr. Blue Sky is much more significant than those releases, although I accept it maybe isn't as significant as an album of completely new material.

Duncan3dc (talk) 15:28, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Maybe because some fan hasn't updated Roy Orbison's yet.

Gordon Lightfoot did pretty much the exact same thing with Gord's Gold and Gord's Gold, Vol. 2 in 1975 and 1988 respectively and both of 'em aren't listed on his main article discography, shall I go on?

Another difference is The Root of All Evil doesn't scream compilation like In Dreams: The Greatest Hits and Mr. Blue Sky does with The Very Best of Electric Light Orchestra even tagged on, thus they signify previous released material, re-recordings or not, it sticks out like a sore thumb here.

Jeff Lynne should have released this as his 3rd solo album, it's just past hits where he plays every instrument anyway with one new song, except Laura Lynne who did four sets of background vocals, see the interview with K-Earth 101.

Flashback, Afterglow, The Night the Light Went On in Long Beach, Olé ELO, ELO's Greatest Hits, Strange Magic, All Over the World, Ticket to the Moon and The Essential 2 CD are at least as significant if not moreso than Mr. Blue Sky, especially those first three as there are recordings on 'em that do not feature on any other release so those were new releases under the ELO banner in 2000, 1990 and 1974 respectively.

All Music Guide, a bigger authority on music than this site, has even listed it under their compilations section for Electric Light Orchestra.

--TrekkiELO (talk) 22:38, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Would it be worth waiting a short while to see how it is described after release? There is a danger that it may be assumed to just be another compilation, but re-assessed after release. I'd also be interested to know just how much "reinterpretation" has gone into the new recordings, or is it just re-recordings made to avoid licensing issues on the originals. (I've heard albums like that, they're invariably pretty dire.) I'm just wondering if the degree of originality should play any part in deciding if it counts as a 'new' album. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 13:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Did you read their review by Stephen Thomas Erlewine?
"Mr. Blue Sky: The Very Best finds Jeff Lynne meticulously re-creating ELO's biggest hits in a series of re-recordings that are surprisingly close to the originals."
No originality there, I've already heard this album myself, indeed they are close to the originals, so it still reads, looks and sounds like a compilation for me along with many other fans.--TrekkiELO (talk) 00:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Also as a fan close to this situation I know that Jeff Lynne did these re-recordings mainly because of licensing issues with Sony over his originals--TrekkiELO (talk) 13:23, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, you're probably right. Should be treated as a greatest hits. However, it does extend the band's existence (even if it's only Lynne & Tandy) into 2012. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 19:30, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
There is no ELO band anymore, Richard Tandy isn't even on "Mr. Blue Sky: The Very Best of" at all, see my earlier reply edit above, so this should now be removed!--TrekkiELO (talk) 22:13, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Associated Acts[edit]

I'm starting this section so that User:QueryOne can better explain the association between ELO and the acts he has reverted 3 times to add to the article, in breech of WP:3RR and WP:BRD. His last edit summary suggested that they had performed with ELO, or were members of ELO. I am not aware of this being the case, so he could explain?

In what way are these acts associated with ELO, rather than by way of later working with Jeff Lynne? If we are to list acts that members of ELO have subsequently worked with, we would have a rather long list of little meaning. Thanks. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 17:22, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Remove all. The only link here is the short-lived supergroup Traveling Wilburys, which itself doesn't even belong under "associated acts". The infobox's documentation clearly states that "groups with only one member in common" should not be used in the associated_acts field. By extension, there's no logical reason to list individual members of such groups. QueryOne (talk · contribs) insists in his edit summaries that "there were other associations with thesecartiss than just the Wilbury's" [sic]. Being a Beatle nut with fairly good knowledge of each of their solo careers, I do not believe this to be the case with Harrison, nor am I aware of the others having connections to ELO. If there are sources to verify such associations then QueryOne should be prepared to state them. CtP (tc) 00:15, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Actually, Jeff Lynne produced for Harrison. However, the infobox's documentation also states that "Association of producers, managers, etc. (who are themselves acts) with other acts" should be avoided, which is exactly what Lynne's association with these acts is (i.e. he produced for them). So they shouldn't be there even indirectly by way of Lynne. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 00:27, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Whoops, didn't realize that. Still, it's probably QueryOne's (unfounded) justification for including them, having stated that "the association with Jeff Lynne is sufficient" when in reality there isn't much of an association in the first place. CtP (tc) 00:36, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

As User:QueryOne has directly refused to contribute to any discussion about his edit and is content to edit war over it, I am reverting it again as disruptive editing against consensus and guidelines. It appears he has a habit of this type of editing. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 20:40, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Just to add; I'm uncertain about User talk:Chris the Paleontologist's recommendation to delete all, for a number of reasons, but happy to discuss. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 20:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is what you thought, but for clarification, when I said "remove all" I was only referring to the three above (Harrison, Orbison, and Petty). I may have sounded like I wanted to remove all associated acts, but this was not the meaning I intended to convey (I, too would be hesitant with regards to such a proposal). CtP (tc) 22:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
For transparency, I should disclose in adding the section on the 2014 Hyde Park performance, that I SMed them twice on stage, in their touring days at Loughborough University in 1974 and 1975. I think if we can identify the lead violinist of this gig, only credited on stage as Eva, she should be added to the meme, as she took a frontline performer's role. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.250.150.110 (talk) 10:50, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Further to the last, the violinist has been identified as Chereene Allen [1]

References[edit]

  1. ^ http://elobeatlesforever.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/review-jeff-lynne-hyde-park.html