Talk:Hebrew Christian movement

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An historical assessment[edit]

This article is an historical narrative of a religious movement of the 19th and 20th century. It is important because it is a precursor to a modern religious movement (Messianic Judaism)--DeknMike (talk) 01:57, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

archived tangential Messianic Judaism section[edit]

Main article: Messianic Judaism

During the first years of the 20th Century, some Jews who had converted to Christianity began distancing themselves from Christian forms of worship, and began to use the term "Messianic".[1] In the 1940s and 50s, missionaries in Israel adopted the term meshichyim ("Messianics") to counter negative connotations of the word nozrim ("Christians"). The rise of Messianic Judaism was, in many ways, a logical outcome of the ideology and rhetoric of the movement to evangelize the Jews as well as its early sponsorship of various forms of Hebrew Christian expressions. The missions have promoted the idea that conversion to Christianity was acceptable for Jews.[2]

In the 1960s, in part because of the Jesus movement, Jewish groups and mainline Christians were surprised to see this rise of a vigorous movement of Jewish Christians or Christian Jews.[3] Martin Chernoff became the President of the HCAA in 1971 (until 1975), and under his leadership the movement's position shifted radically. In June 1973, a motion was made to change the name of the HCAA to the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA), and the name was officially changed in June 1975. According to David A. Rausch, "The name change, however, signified far more than a semantical expression — it represented an evolution in the thought processes and religious and philosophical outlook toward a more fervent expression of Jewish identity,"[4] and began to eliminate the elements of Christian worship that cannot be directly linked to their Jewish roots. [5] --DeknMike (talk) 01:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Explain[edit]

How does this elaborate or is different from the information given at Messianic_Judaism#History ? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 05:09, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request[edit]

{{Edit semi-protected}} This is an article about the beginnings of an historical movement. Please do not revert with a redirect to articles that do not address the same content. --DeknMike (talk) 04:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This template is used when a page is semi-protecte, to request a change to that page. The place to request semi-protection is at WP:RPP; note, though, that that wouldn't do anything in this case, because all editors involved are autoconfirmed. Finally, please respond to the question from Seb_az86556 above; I don't think xe's necessarily right about the redirect, but I do see it as a dispute you all need to work out. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:50, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I actually reported this to WP:RPP. Despite this comment, "The place to request semi-protection is at WP:RPP; note, though, that that wouldn't do anything in this case, because all editors involved are autoconfirmed." you can request protection despite users being autoconfirmed. Full protection means that only admins can edit the page and is typically used when there is an edit war between 2 or more confirmed users and/or pages prone to vandalism. ICYTIGER'SBLOOD 06:07, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't help, or would at least be unfair. Jayjg's an admin. See page history. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 06:11, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I had been unable to obtain a reading of the issue and didn't know how else to raise the flag. Apologize if this was the wrong approach. --DeknMike (talk) 15:02, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that this many reverts justifies full protection. We'll have to wait and see if an admin agrees or not. And even though Jayjg is an admin, xe shouldn't (and, I assume wouldn't) use that ability to make edits on protected articles on which xe is involved. Qwyrxian (talk) 15:21, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Archive discussion of 1st through 4th century Jewish Christians[edit]

Virtually all initial followers of Jesus were Jews (except certain Samaritans and Gabradenes). Traditionally the Roman Centurion Cornelius is considered the first Gentile convert[6], as recorded in Acts 10,[7] albeit he too is a "God-fearer" proselyte who participated in a Jewish synagogue. The term 'Christian' was not used for these individuals until Acts 11, when then it was first used to describe the congregation at Antioch. [8]

Early Jews who followed Jesus continued to worship in synagogues for some time.[9]

By the 4th century, the Greek form of Christianity had become widespread, and most of the congregations were led by gentiles. The active outreach to Jewish people dwindled, and some gentile theologians began to see Judaism and Christianity as separate movements.[citation needed] There have been Jews who converted to Christianity throughout history, but until the 1800s, most worshipped individually or as part of a church.--DeknMike (talk) 15:00, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you move this info out? It's not enough just to move it here, but you also need to explain why you don't think this belongs in the article. It seems to fit to me. Qwyrxian (talk) 15:23, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Jayjg was contending that some of the content was duplicative of the Jewish Christians page, so I moved the content here to be discussed. If you think it belongs on the main page, I have no objections.--DeknMike (talk) 01:31, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ http://www.alittlehebrew.com/jorge/C.%20T.%20Lucky/The.Messianic.Jew.1:1.%281910%29.pdf
  2. ^ Ariel, Yaakov S. (2000). "Chapter 20: The Rise of Messianic Judaism" (Google Books). Evangelizing the chosen people: missions to the Jews in America, 1880–2000. Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press. p. 223. ISBN 9780807848807. OCLC 43708450. http://books.google.com/books?id=r3hCgIZB790C&printsec=frontcover&vq=advocated+offspring+rhetoric+Shalom#v=onepage&q=advocated%20offspring%20rhetoric%20Shalom&f=false. The term was used to designate all Jews who had converted to Protestant evangelical Christianity.
  3. ^ Ariel, Yaakov (2006). "Judaism and Christianity Unite! The Unique Culture of Messianic Judaism". In Gallagher, Eugene V.; Ashcraft, W. Michael (eds.). Jewish and Christian Traditions. Introduction to New and Alternative Religions in America. Vol. 2. Westport, Conn: Greenwood Publishing Group. p. 191. ISBN 978-0275987145. LCCN 2006022954. OCLC 315689134. In the late 1960s and 1970s, both Jews and Christians in the United States were surprised to see the rise of a vigorous movement of Jewish Christians or Christian Jews. {{cite book}}: External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  4. ^ http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1339
  5. ^ Feher, Shoshanah. Passing over Easter: Constructing the Boundaries of Messianic Judaism, Rowman Altamira, 1998, ISBN 9780761989530, p. 20 The Messianic movement has eliminated the elements of Christian worship that cannot be directly linked to their Jewish roots. Communion is therefore associated with Passover, since the Eucharist originated during Ushua’s Last Supper, held at Passover. In this way, Passover is given a new, Yshua-centered meaning.
  6. ^ Catholic Encyclopedia: Cornelius: "The baptism of Cornelius is an important event in the history of the Early Church. The gates of the Church, within which thus far only those who were circumcised and observed the Law of Moses had been admitted, were now thrown open to the uncircumcised Gentiles without the obligation of submitting to the Jewish ceremonial laws."
  7. ^ Acts 10
  8. ^ http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-acts-11-19-26.htm
  9. ^ Wylen, Stephen M., The Jews in the Time of Jesus: An Introduction, Paulist Press (1995), ISBN 0-8091-3610-4, Pp 190-192.; Dunn, James D.G., Jews and Christians: The Parting of the Ways, A.D. 70 to 135, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing (1999), ISBN 0-8028-4498-7, Pp 33-34.; Boatwright, Mary Taliaferro & Gargola, Daniel J & Talbert, Richard John Alexander, The Romans: From Village to Empire, Oxford University Press (2004), ISBN 0-19-511875-8, p. 426. Pg 190.

POVFORK/Redirect discussion[edit]

A discussion on whether this POVFORK should exist at all is being held at Talk:Jewish_Christians#POVFORK of this article being created. Please express your views there. Jayjg (talk) 18:23, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Per consensus and agreement of DeknMike at the discussion Talk:Jewish_Christians#POVFORK of this article being created, and because DeknMike mentioned that he would be away from editing for a few days, I completed the move of the article contents and restored the original redirect. Zad68 (talk) 15:32, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Zad68! Qwyrxian (talk) 22:04, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Good compromise. --DeknMike (talk) 04:21, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Appears that according to WP:RS the title should be small "m"[edit]

Dr. Edward Kessler, Neil Wenborn A dictionary of Jewish-Christian relations 2005 Page 180 "... emerged as a group of Jewish converts to Christianity in the early nineteenth century, at the same time as the first translation of the New Testament into Hebrew (1838). The Hebrew Christian movement was established initially in .." I'm going to go ahead and move, seeing as mainstream sources appear pretty consistent, and also as the article describes no named organisation. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:48, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirecting had to be changed to Jewish Christian[edit]

The page must be redirected to Jewish Christian and the article Messianic Judaism must be mentioned in the article Jewish Christian. It was already mentioned in the article. So, I completed what had to be done.-- İskenderBalas💬 20:45, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:Iskenderbalas, not sure why you said this then blanked it - but these are two different things. This is evidently a period in the larger topic, but seems specific to that era - these 19th Century "Hebrew Christians" are not in the same stream as the same as the 1960s Messianic Judaism movement. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:50, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It was a mistake, so, I removed it. I was editing fast and did not realize I wrote it on the page "Talk:Hebrew Christian movement" instead of "Talk:Hebrew Christian". The page Hebrew Christian was redirected to Messianic Judaism and the talk page of the same article was redirected to Talk:Hebrew Christian movement. I did not realize it because I never thought something like this would happen (an article is redirected to some article while its talk page is redirected to another article's talk page) It was part of a request which you can find here: Talk:Jewish_Christian#Requested_move_20_December_2015. Did I clarify it? -- İskenderBalas💬 20:59, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Was/is this movement entirely English-speaking?[edit]

Was/is this movement entirely English-speaking? This article implies this to be the case, but maybe it wasn't/isn't. This article appears to have no Wikipedia analogs in languages other than English. Acwilson9 (talk) 02:28, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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