Talk:Ike Kaveladze

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Content and notabilty[edit]

Personally I think this article is premature. The other participants of meeting excluding the translator have done notable things aside from the meeting.

Regardless of that, one source added by an IP was removed by me as it was an article about an ~~Ivan~~ Irakly Kaveladze, that article didn't mention him being called Ike, and so far no one has referred to Ike as Ivan. WikiVirusC^(talk) 17:22, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:WikiVirusC "Ike" as a nickname has been confirmed. LA Times article refers to him explicitly as 'Irakly "Ike" Kaveladze'. Also, it's Irakly, not Ivan. Please check the facts and the sources before insta-reverting. 172.56.38.190 (talk) 17:25, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the content of article. The version I reverted says he was born in 1960, and the article you are linking says he is 52 years old. The math doesn't add up there.

From the old NY Times article Mr. Kaveladze, who was born in the Soviet Republic of Georgia in 1960 - 2017-1960 56-57 years old today.

From the new LA Times article Irakly "Ike" Kaveladze, a 52-year-old businessman - 52 years old today.

This was a simple revert for a WP:BLP, in order to make sure we have the facts straight and to make sure we are referring to the correct people. WikiVirusC^(talk) 17:37, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:WikiVirusC Not sure what the issue with the DOB is, but The Week now also confirms that they're the same person. 73.170.252.255 (talk) 17:49, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what the issue with the DOB is either, but yes The week found the same NYT article that is causing the confusion. I'm not doubting or requiring confirmation of the NYT article's existence, everyone is citing them. WikiVirusC^(talk) 17:56, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:WikiVirusC Business Insider confirms the nickname, Irakly "Ike" Kaveladze, and that it's the same person in the 2000 NYT article. 172.56.38.190 (talk) 17:27, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

These basic facts are verified and he has been covered by WP:RS sources for awhile. Clearly passes WP:N, at least to me. Once you are done verifying the sources, I would suggest you return the previous text. Casprings (talk) 17:40, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going through the sources, the full name wasn't mentioned in the original article that revealed his name, and the ages didn't add up, so I'm still going through it all. I restored your version, if you want to add anything else back in feel free. I just want to verify everything before I did that myself. WikiVirusC^(talk) 17:47, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Newsweek article now also confirming. 73.170.252.255 (talk) 18:12, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't need confirmation of the NY Times article. A lot more people will cite it throughout the day/week. WikiVirusC^(talk) 18:48, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/18/537944694/russian-american-with-colorful-past-attended-2016-trump-tower-meeting "Russian-American With 'Colorful' Past Attended 2016 Trump Tower Meeting" --Wikipietime (talk) 12:25, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-trump-businessman-htmlstory.html "A California businessman born in the former Soviet Union also attended Trump Jr. meeting" --Wikipietime (talk) 12:30, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Late Breaking Links by Allegation[edit]

Money Laundering;

http://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-jr-met-russian-accused-of-laundering-14-billion-dollars

Which states;

"Federal investigators say Kaveladze immediately began laundering money for Russians."

--Wikipietime (talk) 19:17, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

International Business Creations, Inc. and Conduit for Money Laundering?[edit]

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/29/business/laundering-of-money-seen-as-easy.html

Might consider for inclusion into BLP.

--Wikipietime (talk) 19:30, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's being discussed above, it was in there before then I removed it because the ages and information that is out there are conflicting different, but a lot of other sources are citing that article now. WikiVirusC^(talk)

Article in Georgian[edit]

http://imedinews.ge/ge/msoflio/20292/trampis-shvilis-rus-advokattan--shekhvedris-kidev-ert-monatsiled-irakli-kaveladze-dasakhelda

173.88.241.33 (talk) 02:58, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Business with the Russian government[edit]

If a money laundering investigation in 2000 revealed that Kaveladze had created corporations without knowing who owned them and that more than $1.4 billion had been moved through their accounts, how can it be said that he "never had any engagement with the Russian government in any capacity"? How would he even know? 173.88.241.33 (talk) 14:33, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. --MelanieN (talk) 14:40, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 24 September 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved (page mover nac) Flooded with them hundreds 08:32, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ike Kaveladze → Irakly "Ike" Kaveladze ‎ – Irakly "Ike" Kaveladze is used in various news outlets and is Irakly is his name, not the Americanized one such as Dwight D. Eisenhower X1\ (talk) 23:56, 24 September 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 11:04, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose this move 2601:541:4500:1760:31CA:102:4BEF:34ED (talk) 13:27, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - although the proposed name does appear quite a lot in sources, the current name is also freely used, and I think is probably somewhat the common name. It also satisfies WP:CONCISE. — Amakuru (talk) 13:38, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

rename to Irakly Kaveladze ‎discussion[edit]

@Amakuru: as you were the only registered user to "oppose" (the other oppose was curiously active for just one day and appears to be functionally a single-purpose account), I would like attempt to rename this article to Irakly Kaveladze. Do you have more to add now? It is more CONCISE, it is his actual name, and is often used (see WaPo, NYT, Politico, etc...). X1\ (talk) 20:05, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@X1\: yes that seems reasonable. I can support that move now as it seems it is favoured recently by quality sources. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 20:41, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 March 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. No prejudice against speedy renomination. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 14:13, 27 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ike Kaveladze → Irakly Kaveladze – Is his actual name, widely used in RSs, and wp:concise. X1\ (talk) 20:46, 25 March 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. KCVelaga (talk) 17:47, 2 April 2019 (UTC)--Relisting. B dash (talk) 00:07, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Most of sources when his name was released were using just Ike, I've seen both more recently, but it still seems Ike is more commonly used in sources, either with or without mention of the real name. WikiVirusC^(talk) 18:32, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Sources are evenly split, therefore we should use the name this person uses to refer to himself, per MOS:IDENTITY. Irakly is the only name on his LinkedIn profile[1], and the self biography on his blog.[2] — JFG ^talk 11:05, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - "Ike" is far more common in news sources: "Ike kaveladze" yields 1,390 news results [3] and "Irakly Kaveladze" yields 135 [4]. From a Google news search for "Kaveladze", in the top 10 news results, Ike is used 7 times and Irakly is used 3 times. MOS:IDENTITY does not apply to this situation.- Mr X 🖋 11:49, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Removal of Laundering[edit]

@Yana1118: if you are going to remove sourced content and claim it was proven false, you need to provide sourcing. Please revert your edit an discuss here. Multiple sources [5] [6] [7] [8] mention it or the original NYT article that we current source. WikiVirusC^(talk) 12:50, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Read more. I do not have time to dig into all the articles, but I know for sure that the court in this case was won. And it has been proven that this is not true.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/08/20/trumps-business-partners-allegedly-involved-in-human-trafficking-mafia-matters-probable-money-laundering/?sh=555a9051610d

The Agalarov lawyer, whose firm also represents Kaveladze, said the Senate report “does nothing more than reiterate decades-old claims of money laundering that have been consistently denied and debunked and which, despite extensive investigations, resulted in no finding of any illegality whatsoever.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yana1118 (talk • contribs) 13:27, 1 April 2021 (UTC) [reply]

I have added the lawyer quote to go with the money laundering mention, along with the Forbes source you provided. There is no source to say that "it has been proven this is not true" just Kaveladze and his lawyer saying it is not true. It is best to include the denial with the information. WikiVirusC^(talk) 14:10, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/07/firm-of-oligarch-behind-trump-jr-meeting-was-primary-client-of-co-probed-for-money-laundering/

Please see this article carefully. It just refutes everything that Raymond Bonner wrote. In the same article, there is a scan of a letter from the bank, which, by the way, was in Mr. Bonner's and he deliberately did not show it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Yana1118 (talk • contribs) 14:27, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article says basically the same things the Bonner article did, how does it refute anything? And the Bonner article quotes and mentions the letter and details Citibank provided. It was a article for print not the web, so they weren't going to include a pdf of the entire letter for a newspaper. Also please signed your responses on talk pages by using ~~~~ at the end of your messages. WikiVirusC^(talk) 14:46, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE2

Mr. Kaveladze is not involved in money laundering and this has been proven. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yana1118 (talk • contribs) 14:41, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]